New house, neighbours don't want fence up....

[RaggleTaggleTick]

We have just bought our first house. The elderly man who lived there had allowed his neighbours to have full access and use of his garden for 30 years. The neighbours also had the same on the other side, so they have basically had 3 gardens.

They have built 2 large conservatories in their own garden and now have just a tiny paved area of space, they have said they don't know where they are going to put their washing line... They have asked that, even though we need to put some kind of fence up (young dc, they have small but deep pond), we only put a short trellis one up as otherwise they will have no light in their conservatories.

DH wants chest height fences, I would but am prepared to compromise, this is going to get awkward, are we BU?

Some of my neighbours do this

but the previous owners of our house had 2 rather large dogs so out garden is securely fenced in.

A chest-high fence won't cut out the light. I think that's the lowest you should go for. I'd want trellis on top of that as well.

I feel sorry for the old man. You can imagine his view into his own garden as wall-to-wall sheets!

Hope your solicitor can put your mind at rest.

www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Ask here, expert advice.

just put up whatever you think is best.

i doubt they will appreciate any compromise you try to make, so id just get on with it tbh.

Argh OP, back out now while you can!

If you choose not to take that advice, go for something 6ft high that looks like this. A low fence would be unsafe for your children.

OP have you exchanged contracts? Because if you haven't I would run away without a second thought.

The issue isn't that NDNs are simply being unreasonable about their washing line situation etc - it's that as OP describes it they have probably established an actual legal right to use of the land, which can be passed on to anyone who owns NDNs' house in the future. There doesn't have to be any formal agreement in place with the old man for this to be true. This would affect OP's own use of the garden and her ability to sell the house in future.

It sounds like a minefield. Unless you can get (a) fences which keep your DC safe and (b) a firm assurance from the solicitor in writing that there will be no future problems (so that you could sue him if necessary) I wouldn't even consider it. However, given the attitude of the neighbours I'm not sure I would consider it at all even if it did tick all the boxes.

We had a problem a bit like this. Bought half next door garden from developers that were doing house up to sell on and new owners, when they eventually moved in, "demanded" we sell it back to them, even though theyd bought the hoyse knowing the situation. We refused as we'd just finished building walls and landscaping the whole thing. I found it all really upsetting and stressful. But it did eventually blow over. Not sure whether it's reason not to buy though...? But people can be surprisingly horrid if they perceive their interests have been compromised.

They sound ve-ery pushy, with the law behind them or not, so even if the law is with you, are they likely to be what Americans call "vexatious litigants"?

I'd run away from this too.

Remember to point out that amongst other things, one reason (as if the fact it isn't their garden is enough!) to not have the washing line in your garden is the fact that you will have a muddy dog running around lots of the time and muddy children running around lots of the time too, often playing with muddy balls and muddy bats and muddy skipping ropes and muddy [insert as many outdoor toys in here as possible]. And that you do not intend to restrict their enjoyment of their own garden - particularly in this weather we're having where everybody playing outside soon ends up very muddy... [muddy grin smiley]

And anyway - if they have also been sharing gardens with their NDN on the other side, surely they can just stick their washing line up in the other garden if they don't want to put it in their own, as I assume that the other neighbours won't be fencing in their garden at the same time?

OP I would be very wary of buying this house. I really do not like the sound of this at all. Bad neighbours are a nightmare. Please think long and hard. I know it may seem like your dream house, but honestly, the best thing for you may well be, to walk away. Very best of luck, I hope things work out well.

So 2 sets of neighbours already causing trouble? Potential easement on your property? Not looking good, is it?
If their demands have started before you even own the house, just what sort of people do you think they'd be like to live next door to? There is not a cat in hells chance I'd consider buying the house! Unless of course you enjoy rifts, rows, unpleasantness and legal problems?

I would be advising my solicitor and the estate agent to get the old man who owns the house of desired height erected before you complete on the sale.

That way the problem is solved before you move in and it will be clear to the original neghbours that this will be the state of play from now on.

But by having the man that has lived their for 30 year errect the fence it eases the situation between you and them - as you will have to live next door to them but the old man is problaby on good terms so they will see the fence going up much better if he does it iyswim

I think you should make a proper fence a condition of the sale. No fence in place, no sign.

Do not mess about with boundary issues. You could buy this house and then one of the neighbours could actually legally say that they have the right to access your garden, due to the historical use, or refuse you permission to put up a fence. It's a pity the old guy let this slide (and shocking the neighours took advantage).

FWIW, pond or no pond, I don't want to be seeing my neighbours when they're in their garden and vice versa.

I used to work as an EHO dealing with noise/neighbour disputes. I realise this home ticks the boxes but please be very aware as to what you are getting yourself in to. say you deal with the issue of access, you put up your fence to a height your LO cant climb. they will be so hacked off by this that they will then start to complain about the following (in no particular order) - your children playing in the garden, you having friends round parking outside their houses, you having a barbecue, you having a bonfire, your dog barking, your dog pooing in the garden, I could really go on with a list of petty complaints that will absolutely drive you crackers and which you will then have to reveal to the people that you sell this house on to. Do not agree to exchange or complete on this house unless the said fence is in place before you move in. Better still please please please reconsider. MN is littered with AIBU's from people who have neighbours like this and it really dominates your life.

the trouble with making a fence a condition of purchase, is that you are helping to give evidence that they previously had unrestrocted access.

My neighbours & I have conservatories & 6 ft fences & have no issues with light.

On the other hand if they are retired the OP is likely to outlast them, a family with young noisy kids or hooligan teenagers would worry me more as potential neighbours than gumbly old folk.
I'm surprised you are discussing the garden before you move in though.
We actually put up a higher garden gate for our elderly neighbour as he was worried about his grandchildren running out into the road so not all old folk are antigates and fences.
They sound odd if they think they have any say in who buys the house next door.
I don't mind seeing my neighbours in the garden, we chat a bit and low fences means the plants get more light. I'd hate a barking dog next door, used to live next door to a hoard of terriers that yapped incessantly every time I stepped in the garden, that was awful.

It's definitely worth getting this all checked out with the solicitors but access =/= an acquired right. If it did, long term tenants would end up owning the properties they live in through passage of time!

It is clear from the OP that the neighbours acknowledge that a fence will be going up. There is no suggestion that they are disputing this, just asking that it does not impede their light too much. They have no right to require this, but like any neighbour, they can ask.

Personally, I wouldn't be put off a property I liked because of this, but I would make sure with my solicitor that the position is clear legally.

It would be interesting to know whether the vendor disclosed the neighbours' use of their garden to their solicitor. If they didn't then there is no way the OP's solicitor would know. I would be very concerned aboout the fence issue if I were you.

I'm end of terrace so my neighbour has a right of access over my property to take their bins out. They have used it for a variety of things but not free for all acess fortunately. When the previous neighbour was alive he never used his front door and nor did his friends so I had a constant stream of people walking past my back door. The extent of use was not disclosed to my solicitor prior to me moving in.

To those of you asking why the solicitor hasn't spotted this potential issue, it's probably because no-one has told the solicitor. This is not a question that is dealt with on the property questionnaires and he wouldn't necessarily know unless he'd been to the house that there was no fence there.

OP I suspect that, when you mention this to him, he will be as concerned as you about the issue.

FWIW, I don't think this necessarily means a boundary dispute - there is nothing in your posts to suggest that the neighbours think that they have a right to access this garden, other than by the say-so of the current owners. The NDN but one have already confirmed that they expect the arrangement to end now.

I would have thought they would have had to say something bico, but then again if someone had put in an offer....

bico xposts.

I get quite fed up with the solicitor-bashing on here. Solicitors can only advise on things they're told about and they can only advise within the bounds of the law. It's not their fault if you don't like the law.

I would be very surprised if the neighbours had acquired any kind of right to access the garden.

There's a legal section on MN. Might be worth asking there.