New house, neighbours don't want fence up....

[RaggleTaggleTick]

We have just bought our first house. The elderly man who lived there had allowed his neighbours to have full access and use of his garden for 30 years. The neighbours also had the same on the other side, so they have basically had 3 gardens.

They have built 2 large conservatories in their own garden and now have just a tiny paved area of space, they have said they don't know where they are going to put their washing line... They have asked that, even though we need to put some kind of fence up (young dc, they have small but deep pond), we only put a short trellis one up as otherwise they will have no light in their conservatories.

DH wants chest height fences, I would but am prepared to compromise, this is going to get awkward, are we BU?

The miserable old git next door serms to have enjoyed the best of both worlds. Built himself two conservatories in his own back garden (whick I assume his neighbours didn't have unrestricted and then roamed around using their garden as his own without having to maintain it.

I wouldn't buy this house in a month of Sundays.

"This is not a question that is dealt with on the property questionnaires"

I sold my dad's bungalow this spring after he died and the questionnaires included an 'Overriding interests' one which includes

Overriding interests that are frequently encountered...

- rights of way or access to the property (other than public right of way)

If you are uncertain whether any overriding interests exist or should be disclosed, speak to your legal representative.

If I had known of any arrangement like the one the OP describes, I would certainly have asked my solicitor about it.

I would not want to live next door to those neighbors. I would let the house go.

If you can't or won't back out. Get your solicitors to get the vendor to have his neighbours to sign away right to the land. I would make it a condition of sale also to have 2 6 foot fpannels next to rear of the property and 4 foot fencing covered by 2 foot trellis along the rest of the property.

I agree about the solicitor bashing.How could the solicitor possibly know unless you told him/her?

As Rustybear says -If the neighbour has not declared an interest in that section, then that might be a get out (whereby you could get your deposit back if you have exchanged) if your solicitor thinks an easement has been created

Obviously if the vendors have not mentioned this on the form, then they are at fault. It's not unknown for these things not to be mentioned. I'm not sure whether OP said whether this was a probate sale? If it is or perhaps the elderly vendor has gone into a home, whoever filled in the form may not have known about it either.

Oh, one other thing, if you have any concerns OP your solicitor can request that the vendor pay for indemnity insurance.

probably because no-one has told the solicitor

agree, will only know self-reported info from the seller (elderly?).
Soliciters are usually in the run-a-mile camp from any complications.

How about the estate Agent? Where do they come into this I wonder? when valuing the house for the vendor they would have surely asked 'WTF is this weird garden arrangement?'

We had to pay indemnity insurance for a couple of concerns. One was because we didn't have any documents listing covenants mentioned elsewhere, and because I didn't know all the details the questionnaires asked for. That policy describes the insured risk as "Title to the property is or may be subject to..... rights, easements, exceptions and/or reservations imposed prior to the Policy Commencement Date and details of which are unknown." The premium for that was £124.

(The other indemnity was because the original transfer document when my Dad bought the house new in 1970 mentioned the right to 'connect' to the services, but not the right to 'use' them; I still think that's a daft distinction to make, but we paid because it wasn't worth holding up the sale.)

When you first viewed the house didn't you mention the garden/fence issue with either your solicitors or the estate agent? The estate agent is worrying because other viewers must have mentioned it to them. It seems a bit late now to start worrying!

Talk to your solicitor and get everything watertight regarding your rights over the garden before you exchange contracts. Make sure it's all in writing and that you, the solicitor, the seller and the seller's solicitor have all signed.

Also maybe pop round to the neighbours and let them know about the new arrangements in person, say that you're sorry they won't be able to use the garden any more but as you have young DCs and a dog it wouldn't be safe to put up trellis fences. Be polite, friendly and smile, and it may all work out fine. IF, however, they're rude or shouty, run for the hills - you don't need this kind of grief, there are plenty of other houses to buy.

Good luck!

just using something does not give rights so long as this is plain

if I let you use my garden to plant potatoes in each year you acquire no rights because I say "do you want to use my garden for potatoes again this year" or even if i say " your children can play in my garden so long as no damage " even if no time limit is mentioned the crucial words are "my garden"

because this makes it plain that a.) it is "my garden" and
b.) I am allowing use means that suppose this goes on for forty years you acquire no rights as in year 41 I do not need to make the offer, neither do I need to make this plain yearly so long as initially it was said that you can use part/ all of my garden it is still just permissive it does not become yours at any point

so provided vendor allowed access to "his garden" he is maintaining ownership and it is not access rights

Cant wait to hear what the solicitor/estate agent says, very interesting..

I hope all is well op

I would advise at least a couple of panels of 6 foot fencing at the house end, there's nothing so bloody intrusive as seeing someone and being seen constantly when in your kitchen\backroom/garden. Plus, sometimes you want to be outside and just not acknowledge anyone!
Do you have a garden where you live now? Agree fence should be agreed on before completion

I would seriously be considering letting this house go, OP.

Perhaps it may be worth checking if the conservatories the neighbour built are legal. This may have some bearing on whether the neighbour will become difficult.
I know he said that they will need to put up a fence, so not claiming the land. He could cause trouble if he doesn't agree with the height. I would also worry he only wanted a small fence, so he could climb over for access.

I'd be tempted to tell hom you'll be coming round to use the conservatory on a regular basis and to make sure there's a cip of tea ready.

What has your solicitor advised so far?

He was out of the office today but will call me tomorrow, I'll report back then

You could put up a 5 foot picket fence initially. Then buy lots of tiny two inch plants to create a hedge that will grow to about 5/6 foot. Rosemary and box make a nice hedge and can be bought very cheaply when small if you find a good nursery.

I would be re-thinking about buying the house tbh - it sounds like it could be one problem after another with the neighbours :(

I would also be thinking about buying the house, if there are problems already.

It might be worth going round and having a chat with them though, this could really keep things even and friendly

If anyone is going to be chatted with, it should be the vendor!But probably best to wait for the talk with the solicitor first.

OP, this is a bit technical but explains what easements are and how they come about www.landregistry.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/22224/easements.pdf

(This only applies if you're in England-in Scotland the equivalent are called servitudes and different time-limits etc. apply).

I would be very reticent to continue to exchange of contracts stage without this issue being examined and every t crossed and i dotted by the solicitor. They may suggest making the vendor erecting fences a condition of sale.

This is the kind of thing that can cause huge disputes for years-if you decide to proceed I would do so extremely carefully to be sure there are no nasty surprises.