re Offensive terminology

[DoJo]

I will confess from the off that this is kind of a thread about a thread, but really didn't want to de-rail/feed the troll depending on how you view it. However, it was mentioned a few times that 'moron' was an offensive term, and as I had never come across someone offended by it, I turn to the mighty google to research its origins. Whilst it turns out that the term was coined by Henry H Goddard to (and I'm quoting directly from wikipedia here)
"denote mild mental retardation" and "to describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale".

'Fair enough' I think to myself, glad I know this as I wouldn't want to use a term which anyone would find offensive. However, the article goes on to describe the other terms used by Goddard on the same scale which include 'idiot' 'imbecile' and 'stupid'. Now, I am pretty sure that I have never seen anyone lambasted for using any of those terms on here, and also reasonably convinced that their move into everyday terminology has softened their impact significantly. So why is moron still considered (by some at least) more offensive than those other terms?

Disclaimer - genuinely not trying to start a bun fight. I just find the origins of words interesting and would be interested to know why some provoke a stronger reaction than others.

If you change a term then it's replacement Then that will be used.
It's because people fundamentally want to use people like my son as an insult.

Yes Pag that is exactly it. We can demonise a word but unfortunately we have work to do before we can change people's behaviour and their gut reaction or revulsion towards things they do not understand or that scare them.

Retard is still used in the US a great deal as del Of course it is said as an insult, but it seems to be regarded benignly in much the same way that we might shrug off being called an idiot or an imbecile. I dunno why that should be.

this is another one that always baffles me.

I understand the technical difference between the two conditions but I have no idea why one should be considered offensive and pejorative and the other not.

Fell - DH was walking with DS2 during the winter. Ds2 needs to hold hands although he is nearly 17.
When he came home he said that a bunch of teenagers had shouted 'fucking gay fucking retard' at them.

I thought DH would be angry but it was so ridiculous he was roaring
'aww let them have their moment. It was like a triple wordscore in their world.'

I thoughtlessly use lame, but I'm going to let myself off as I have a mobility problem.

Can we agree on an acceptable insult? I need at least one that I can use in polite company.

Ha, that's hilarious! What an awful thing to happen, but I'm so glad he managed to see the black humour in it.

It reminds me of similar story. When I was about 18 I went to a fancy dress party with my boyfriend at the time. He was dressed in a 70's sort of John Travolta suit from a charity shop and I had borrowed a sari from an Indian colleague of my mums.

We were drunkenly walking home at about 2am and a group of knobhead scumbags passed on the other side of the street. I heard one of them start taking the piss out of my boyfriend's clothes (it was early-mid 80's so they didn't look retro or ironic, just deeply unfashionable ) and I could hear jeers of 'Oh look at the flares, what a wanker' etc, and then another one burst out laughing and piped up 'And he's with a Paki bird.'

I did see the funny side though.

[gri]

TBH ZZZZ you phrased it better than me. I have enjoyed this thread including all of your posts.
It really isn't the language,it's what is underneath.
The sneery 'the professionally offended should get over it' don't understand the anxiety created by simply walking a child like DS2 into a public place where all of us are vulnerable to some twat shouting, laughing or insulting. The casual use of the words thrown at our loved ones is emblematic of how difficult life is.

Fellatio- you may be interested to know that for several years now the AQA GCSE syllabus for science requires pupils to learn about thalidomide as part of their understanding of drug trials. The pupils find it fascinating (and shocking) so for a significant number of teenagers there would be no excuse for using 'flid'.

I like the word 'cretin', not as an insult obviously but the origination of the word - The etymology of cretin is uncertain. Several hypotheses exist. The most common derivation provided in English dictionaries is from the Alpine French dialect pronunciation of the word Chrétien ("(a) Christian"), which was a greeting there. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the translation of the French term into "human creature" implies that the label "Christian" is a reminder of the humanity of the afflicted, in contrast to brute beasts.[1] Other sources suggest that Christian describes the person's "Christ-like" inability to sin, stemming, in such cases, from an incapacity to distinguish right from wrong.[2][3]

It is the old name for people with untreated congenital hypothyroidism, it is a specific term for a specific disease that we don't actually see any more in the developed world as we diagnose and treat congenital hypothyroidism well before symptoms develop.

Sorry, I sound really patronising in that last post. That was not my intention at all.

You see I find the words cunt and twat offensive-why should the slang words f!or female genitalia be used as insults? Idiot and moron don't bother me whereas imbecile and cretin do. Spaz and mong are the two which I feel are very wrong in the context of this thread. I have never heard or used the term "monging out" and I don't like it at all.
We should take care of our language and not allow it to become slipshod.

I think it is all to do with the evolution of language. You can't really pull someone up on using an "offensive" word if they have never used it in that way and genuinely have no idea orbits historical associations. Language evolves, and we learn language from those around us, and the context that they use it in.

I was shocked to read some damning reviews of Roald Dahl's "Revolting Rhymes". The reason being that one of the characters is described as a slut. This is another word thats meaning has changed over the years. I am aware of the original, relatively benign, meaning and I would read the poem in this context. But this doesn't mean I should laugh disparagingly at all the parents who are unaware of the meaning of this word originally, and who are horrified by finding the word slut in a child's book.

It is not reasonable to expect everyone to extensively research the entymology of any word they may come across just in case it may have offensive connotations for someone. As someone said up up thread the terms spaz etc are losing their original specific meaning , most people are using the term without any idea of this specific meaning, it is just a generic insult.

Whoreson is stronger, isn't it? You can be a bastard (literally) without your mother being (literally) a whore.

Depends on the definition of whore. I heard a woman interviewed on Radio 4 who was placed in an orphanage shortly after birth. When she asked, the Irish nuns who ran it told her her mother had been a prostitute. She was nearly 30 before it dawned on her that they had simply meant her mother had been unmarried.

This is fascinating-I had no idea that idiot, stupid or cretin could be viewed as offensive.

Could be wrong, but I think for most of history a "whore" was any women have socially/religiously disproved of sex, i.e. other than with her husband.

bulby that's interesting - are they told about the connection to the word flid though? It may not always be obvious unless it is pointed out to you, even if you know about Thalidomide. to be fair it's not a word I have heard in common usage for over 30 years, but I'm some kids do still say it.

Moron was coined by a psychologist in 1910 to mean someone dull thinking (from the greek moros), but with a higher IQ than an idiot.

So next time someone calls you a moron you can say 'I may be a moron but at least I am not an idiot!'

Which should confuse them somewhat.

Obviously the origins of using gay as way to describe something has its roots on homophobia,

well no because 'gay' originally meant cheerful, happy, lively and then a way to describe homosexuals, and now is the oppositie of its original meaning

I would consider myself fairly well read and educated not enough obviously but had no idea that moron meant anything different from idiot. No clue of any medical links.