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DDs school trip and expected attire.....

164 replies

BabylonReturns · 28/05/2013 16:32

Right, I'm perfectly prepared for a roasting/flaming whatever, but please please please understand I'm not posting this to be goady or otherwise.

If you think IABU then I will accept that graciously, I'm asking as I'm really not sure.

Ok, second week back after half term, DDs school (ks2) are going on a trip as part of their religious studies education. The trip costs £5, no problem.

As yet, I am unaware exactly where the trip will be, but have been advised in writing that boys are expected to wear long trousers and girls should wear tights or trousers and will be expected to cover their hair and lower half of their faces in accordance with cultural requirements in a place of worship.

DD isn't very happy about wearing tights or trousers in June, she's very much a summer dress kind of girl regardless of the weather Hmm
She certainly isn't happy about covering her face up, doesn't mind her hair being coves as often wears a cap or hat, but really doesn't want to wear a scarf over her face.

So AIBU to make her wear the scarf, and would a mumsnet scarf be ok?? I don't really do scarves so a mn one is all I have! DH is saying he would prefer her not to go at all, and if the roles were reversed, would the cultural wearers of the scarves be asked to remove them to enter our local church?

Again I just want to reiterate I'm not looking for a bun fight regarding religions, I accept that different cultures do different things, and that's fine, but if my dd is expected to do as they do when visiting them in their place of worship, are they expected to do the same and fit in with us in our place of worship?

I'm sure I haven't conveyed this well at all Confused

OP posts:
Flossyfloof · 28/05/2013 16:33

What's a mumsnet scarf?

BabylonReturns · 28/05/2013 16:36
OP posts:
CloudsAndTrees · 28/05/2013 16:37

If 'our place of worship' has stipulations on what should be worn, then anyone who wants o go in them should follow that, or just not go. Obviously.

I'd be more worried that you don't know where the trip is than what they are supposed to wear.

If your dd is sure that she doesn't want to cover her face, then that is her right. You will have to keep her home that day.

diddl · 28/05/2013 16:38

Why would someone who dresses modestly & wears a headscarf be expected to change that to enter a place of worship where it isn't necessary?

MegaClutterSlut · 28/05/2013 16:38

I don't think they will let your dd in if she's not covered will they? if she doesn't want to cover then I would keep her at home tbh

nightingalefloor · 28/05/2013 16:39

The thing is, there's nothing in Christianity about not covering your face and/or head in a church (in fact, in some parts of the world Christian women do have to inside a church, it's a regional religious thing). In some religions such as Islam/Sikhism/etc however, it is considered disrespectful to enter a place of worship without certain coverings whether you are a believer in that certain religion or not. Therefore if your daughter turns up with her ankles, face and hair showing to a gudwara or mosque for example, she will not be allowed in, simple as. The upshot is if you send her not meeting the dress standards required to be respectful in a certain place of worship, YABU.

Patchouli · 28/05/2013 16:39

Has she not got any summery trousers?

TheBigJessie · 28/05/2013 16:40

Well, as a matter of fact, in your local church, depending on its denomination, it's quite possible that the vicar/priest would rather prefer it if your daughter covered her hair and shoulders. (Royal wedding- did you notice Kate didn't go strapless.).

But I can't remember any denominations that would get upset by people covering their hair, so no, they wouldn't ask a muslim girl to remove a headscarf.

NoelHeadbands · 28/05/2013 16:41

Does your local place of worship not allow the wearing of the scarves?

ThePathanKhansAmnesiac · 28/05/2013 16:42

OFGS don,t send her the MN scarf, poor chikd will have all manner of random women talking about pom bears and naice ham Grin.

Seriously if you're not happy with her covering her hair don,t send her, how does she feel?

Is it a trip to a mosque? Fwiw i,ve never heard of a stipulation that a niqab (face veil) has to be worn.

nightingalefloor · 28/05/2013 16:42

Sorry, should have made that clearer. What I meant was that in some parts of the Christian world, women DO cover up in a style similar to Islam and this is required to enter places of worship.

squeakytoy · 28/05/2013 16:42

"I'm not looking for a bun fight regarding religions, I accept that different cultures do different things, and that's fine, but if my dd is expected to do as they do when visiting them in their place of worship, are they expected to do the same and fit in with us in our place of worship?"

By posting that you clearly are looking to start an argument, because it isnt relevant to the problem that you have regarding your daughter.

If your daughter isnt happy about it, then dont allow her to go.

flanbase · 28/05/2013 16:43

The rule is as it is & if you don't agree then don't go. Some christian churches have dress requirements

Succoria · 28/05/2013 16:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Omnishambolic · 28/05/2013 16:44

Definitely find out where they are going! Also find out whether this is a requirement of the place of worship or whether the teachers think it is - I'm surprised that pre-pubescent girls are expected to cover up in the way a woman would be and not convinced that this is actually required.
Having said that, if it is, then she either goes covered up or doesn't go. I'd think she'd get more out of going and finding out what the religion is about, including the covering up reasons, whether she disagrees or not, than not going.

RevoltingPeasant · 28/05/2013 16:45

OP - personally I think this is a really interesting lesson for DD. I think she should go, cover her face, but agree that she is only doing this as a requirment of entering the building and she is free to disagree with it. You can then get her to talk about how she felt about actually doing it.

It might be a really good way to get her to think about women's rights.

Equally if she is adamant that she doesn't want to do it as she sees covering up her face as discriminatory, well, I think she's old enough to make that decision and you should respect it if she digs in. In which case keep her off and write to the head explaining politely why.

ThePathanKhansAmnesiac · 28/05/2013 16:45

^ unless in some parts of the M.East.

DiscoDonkey · 28/05/2013 16:45

Stop treating her like a little princess and tell her to suck it up. Honestly it's one day.

BabylonReturns · 28/05/2013 16:45

A gurdwara sounds familiar, i know it's a trip to a place of worship, they will confirm the exact location next week.

I will also talk to dd about wearing the scarf. I don't want her to miss out, and I am the first to admit I'm a little bit a lot ignorant about religion and different requirements regarding attire etc.

I also say our place of worship, and mean the local church at the bottom of the road. DH and I are not religious, and rarely enter the church, so items of "our" we don't have one if that makes sense.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, I really don't mean to.

OP posts:
Succoria · 28/05/2013 16:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flanbase · 28/05/2013 16:46

It'll be interesting for her to see other cultures - as this isn't your culture and get to understand the religion of her some of her friends.

Floralnomad · 28/05/2013 16:46

I would be very surprised if children had to cover their faces . When I took my cub pack on religious visits ( for a badge ) we had to cover our heads and change footwear but nobody was ever expected to cover their face . When we went to the Sikh temple they provided all the 'equipment' . A few didnt come on the visit and they really missed out because it was a fantastic evening ,very informative and welcoming ( they even fed us!)

RevoltingPeasant · 28/05/2013 16:47

I expect if she knows all her friends will be doing it she won't mind.

Actually, not being contrarian, but I really wouldn't assume that. She may have very definite ideas about being made to dress a certain way since she is a girl. I know I did at that age.

Greenandcabbagelooking · 28/05/2013 16:47

Could she not wear her summer dress and thin tight? It might not be that warm. Thin tights are still tights.

I would agree with covering her head/hair, but not covering her face. Even in Islam, that level of covering isn't mandated.

PurpleRayne · 28/05/2013 16:49

Sounds like she will benefit from this trip, it would a shame to deprive her of the experience. You could set a good example by discussing mutual respect, and ask her to reflect if she would prefer to be left out.

The 'if the roles were reversed' argument is spurious and just suggests an unpleasant bigotry lurking under the surface. Yes, yabu.

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