Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nick Ross on rape - warning you may feel the need to punch a wall

484 replies

DuelingFanjo · 25/05/2013 23:09

sorry it's a daily mail link.

I am full of rage, particularly his comments on aggravated rape. Wtf. Presumably he means that there are situations in which he will not be able to stop himself from raping someone because it is aggravated. This has made me so angry. Please they'll me he no longer works for the BBC. I truly hope he loses his career over this. How the hell are we supposed to educate people who think like this?

OP posts:
IsBella · 26/05/2013 12:21

Apparently he doesn't have any daughters.

It's quite well known that men don't realise women are human until they do. Hmm

For example, company directors who have daughters tend to have more commitment to equal opportunities in their companies.

Pity some men have to actually help produce females, before they can realise that we're actually people like them. Hmm

scottishmummy · 26/05/2013 12:28

nr appalling comments,vile.good to see him being pilloried for this
but no I don't think he representative of decent minded people
also I don't think pithy generalisations about men not caring about women are helpful

KittensoftPuppydog · 26/05/2013 12:42

My husband has no children but 3 sisters and 6 nieces. He understands women's point of view very well. Wouldn't get away with anything else.
Nick Ross is just a cunt.
Apart from anything else, views on what is considered to be women 'asking for it' vary from country to country. It's like an arms race. In the end you get to the victorians, covering up piano legs so that they don't give anyone the horn.

TheFlipsideOfTheCoin · 26/05/2013 12:50

The assumption is that any woman who chooses not to pursue a claim is being let down by the State or is acting irrationally. But could it be that she is right? What if she feels partly responsible for what happened?

I feel responsible for something that happened to me a long time ago. I was drunk with a group of friends in a hotel. It was a wedding, so there were a lot of people booked into rooms. I was sharing a room with a female friend.

This female friend and I got chatting to a group of people. One of the men was complaining that he was unable to drive home (he lived nearby) and so female friend drunkenly suggested that he stay in our room. I said it would be okay. Later on, I go up to the room to find that female friend is asleep in her bed. I assume that the man got a lift home.

But then there's a knock at the door. I open the door and the man is there (quite drunk). He gets into my bed. I get into the bed too and expect us both to just go to sleep.

He puts his arm around me. In the back of my mind I'm a bit Confused ...but don't say anything because I was very drunk and sleepy. Next thing I know he's pulling my underwear down and touching me. I absolutely did not touch him or anything. It was a complete surprise. He then ended up putting his penis inside me.

I sort of froze and didn't know what to do. For some reason, I felt like I couldn't say anything...maybe this was because I was drunk. Friend was still fast asleep in other bed. I sort of just thought it'd be easier to let it happen than to say anything I think.

The next day he was gone but there was a number left on the side of the bed. I was crying in the morning and told my friend what had happened. She was shocked and rang the number. He was extremely apologetic...thought I was a lovely girl, did not realise that it wasn't consensual because I didn't say anything (I didn't bloody do anything, just lay there in stunned silence, half passed out.) He was so genuinely sorry. I later found out that he hit a woman when he was drunk and used to get in some violent fights (these incidents did not happen that night however)

I wouldn't class this situation as rape. I certainly don't compare myself to the women who are violently attacked by a stranger, etc. so I can partially see where Nick Ross is coming from.

Sorry for almost hijacking the post. I'm still unsure about what happened to me specifically and this post reminded me of it.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 26/05/2013 12:56

you were raped.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 26/05/2013 12:57

sorry that's far too blunt but what happened was not your fault at all

YoniMatopoeia · 26/05/2013 13:06

I would call what happened tou you rape flipside

Sad

He should have ensured that you were consenting. Either verbally, or by your obvious, enthusiastic participation. The fact he did neither makes it rape in my eyes.

LeStewpot · 26/05/2013 13:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 26/05/2013 13:10

I don't think you need to compare yourself to other women though, flip. I don't think people do with other violent crimes - we all find it tragic and appalling when we hear about a horrific murder, but it doesn't make us say 'ah, yes, that really does make what happened to X down the road, whose partner put sleeping pills in X's coffee, not murder'. Does that make sense?

I would have said that if you were half passed out and silent, that man failed his responsibility to see you were consenting. If he 'genuinely' didn't realized that a stunned, silent, half passed out woman might not be consenting, he is guilty there. From what you say, it might be he was a plausible liar and knew perfectly well - but I'm speculating.

I'm really sorry it happened to you. Sad

LeStewpot · 26/05/2013 13:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 26/05/2013 13:12

Btw, I don't know anything about the law, but would it be better if instead of 'aggravated rape' we had 'rape' as one charge and whatever else it was as another? So someone could be charged with 'rape and GBH', to make it clear that the rape is a crime in its own right with no variation in 'seriousness'? Or would that run the risk of implying rape somehow isn't GBH?

I don't know, just wondering.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 26/05/2013 13:14

I am itching to draw parallels between what he says about women and rape, and the freedoms he's outraged his words on the page don't get, but it would be poor taste.

C999875 · 26/05/2013 13:15

No wonder so any rapes go unreported. xxx

LeStewpot · 26/05/2013 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 26/05/2013 13:19

So what is 'aggravated rape'? Confused

Forgive me for being ignorant.

MardyBra · 26/05/2013 13:20

He is a fucking arse for all the reasons listed above.

I hope nobody buys your book Nick and that your inflammatory publicity-seeking comments backfire on you big time.

Bowlersarm · 26/05/2013 13:20

I don't find it controversial.

Sorry.

RedHelenB · 26/05/2013 13:21

Hobnob - it is YOUR decision & feelings that count -as you say you were BOTH drunk.

I personally don't think you have to participate enthusiastically to indicate consent or even necessarily to say yes. I do personally however think that if you say no, or are obviously in pain or crying then it is rape. And I do think that is similar to the sort of situation he is writing about.

NumTumDeDum · 26/05/2013 13:22

I can't get over this assumption he makes that it is all about what a woman looks like and how she dresses. Ime it is about power and domination. I have unfortunately been raped several times. The first was by a client who followed me home and forced his way into my flat 'to teach me a lesson'. The second was repeated rape throughout my marriage by a man who knew what I had endured and knew that restraining me in any way would provoke a distressed reaction. The last time he did it was to punish me for filing a petition for divorce. That time he strangled me as well because I fought back for the first time. What I was wearing made no matter to any of these incidents. They were all designed to put me in my place. There were no precautions I could have taken. It wasn't my fault, nor was I contributorily negligent. I abhor these rape fallacies and I am extremely distressed that this has been printed without a contrary view to balance it out.

LeStewpot · 26/05/2013 13:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 26/05/2013 13:24

Thank you!

Sorry to sidetrack.

num, that is awful. Sad

C999875 · 26/05/2013 13:25

The flipsideofthecoin. If you have been penetrated without your permission then it is rape. I am so sorry for what you have been through. xxxx

YoniMatopoeia · 26/05/2013 13:28

RedHelen - you do NOT have to be crying. You do NOT have to be obviously in pain. You do NOT have to have said no. It is the man's responsibility to ensure that you do consent, in the ways detailed above. Some women's reaction to unwanted sexual attention is to freeze. That is as valid reaction as any other and does NOT imply consent.

NumTumDeDum · 26/05/2013 13:31

Shared a bit more than I intended to there, but necessary to make the point. I wonder what he makes of men dressing provocatively? Someone made the point earlier that men are raped as well (by men). Does he apply his reasoning here as well? Are they asking for it?

LeStewpot · 26/05/2013 13:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.