Nick Ross on rape - warning you may feel the need to punch a wall

[DuelingFanjo]

sorry it's a daily mail link.

I am full of rage, particularly his comments on aggravated rape. Wtf. Presumably he means that there are situations in which he will not be able to stop himself from raping someone because it is aggravated. This has made me so angry. Please they'll me he no longer works for the BBC. I truly hope he loses his career over this. How the hell are we supposed to educate people who think like this?

He is on This Morning now.

He sure is. Can't say I've changed my mind.
Why do people always talk about tape being a feminist issue? It's a frigging human issue IMO.

It's depressing but it's what we do. Nick Ross presented a programme on crime so he's an expert on crime and ludicrously gets consulted on it by much more serious groups than Holly and Phil.

Someone loses a loved one and they get made a 'tsar' on knife crime or paedophiles by politicians who don't want to seriously tackle crime, but know what will make them look as though they do.

Nick Ross says some women have had nonconsensual sex but don't consider it rape and calls them experts too. They're not, they're just experts on their own experience.

Just like he's an expert rape apologist.

I agree rape is an issue for us all

but we all know how hysterical those bitter man hating feminists get

Glad i didn't watch This Morning, don't think i could watch yet another rape apologist (Nick Ross) making excuses for men.

In reality we all have to take risks in our lives, eg. i walk home at night from work alone & so do other colleagues; but if you live alone and don't drive then what are you supposed to do.

Anyway i enjoy my walk home, it de-stresses me after work!

I don't want a rape apologist telling me that i shouldn't walk alone at night just because i'm a woman!

My sister allowed a male married work colleague to sleep in the lounge area of her hotel suite. She woke up to find him naked in her bed & managed to fight him off.
She'd been assured by other colleagues that he was trustworthy, they couldn't believe it when she told them otherwise!
She didn't tell the Police because she'd have been told a) you shouldn't have let him sleep in the suite, and b) it's his word against yours.
Also she'd had a couple of drinks at a business dinner.

In Nick Ross' world that would have been 'not really rape' - luckily she escaped but i wanted to do serious damage to that man who attacked her.

It's grey.

I've been raped by a man I was in a relationship with and living with.

What happened to me was very different to being "dragged off the street and gang-raped by a stranger".

When it's a male friend who you trusted though it's very hard to trust men ever again.

I don't think that 'date rape' apologists take that horrible feeling that you can't ever trust or be alone with another man seriously enough, it can badly affect your life.

linerunner's mention of female rape apologists reminds me of a row I got into with a woman on another site where I really shouldn't have bothered.

She was coming out with the usual stuff about short skirts, walking home alone, 'date' rape not being real rape and crucially only being alone with men that you know well.

I said I'd never been raped because I'd never been alone with a rapist, not because of anything else I did or didn't do.

I added that it didn't matter how many times you'd met someone, for a relationship to progress you had to be alone with a man one day and if he was a rapist that would be the time he chose to rape you.

Therefore she'd taken a risk just like the women she was condemning because she was married. I didn't even go into the idea of rape in marriage.

She went spare at me like I'd personally insulted her and wished rape on me, to teach me a lesson about being foolish.

I think sometimes it's a need to believe that if you follow certain rules, terrible things won't happen to you.

That's me being charitable btw. I really think she was a stupid cunt with ishoos.

it is still rape

if violence (as in punching, hitting, biting, slapping, kicking rape itself is a violent act) is involved too the sentence will take that into account

for many women being raped by their husband, a man who they have a life with children with is devastating no other violence may have taken place

There is no grey areas in rape, the events around it differ and what happens before or after but forcing a women to have sex, none consensual sex is rape

Anyone notice the bit at the end ....

"Women are more capable of making their own decisions than we allow

Just how patronising is that ?
And as if none of the thinkers, writers, or readers of said article might themselves be women !

Also, I didn't read every word (most of the beginning though) but found it all terribly disjointed. Just lots of cllches and suggestions of ideas, but nothing properly thought through or argued to a real conclusion.

But it's the Daily Fail - what did I expect ?

It was his first line of defence "lots of feminist groups advise about safety" yes Nicolas because bastards like you think women are asking for it.
I wonder if his views would remain the same if his daughter or sister was attacked.
It makes me ragey.
I heard my young dil say something the other day regarding a girl in a short skirt asking for it. She's a normally intelligent young woman. She lacked information and guidance.
She has it now for sure
It's up to parents to discuss this issue with their sons and daughters.

I read the entire chapter. I am not sure what the point of it is. Some musings. Some rape apology. Some bad analysis. No conclusion.

Seems like a thrilling book that we should all buy. Oh, hang on....

Exactly how I felt Yoni

The point is for Nick Ross to be paid £5,000, maybe £10,000 by the Mail. I don't know. I don't commission for them.

And then he's going to get £1,000 or maybe more for going on This Morning, and other appearance fees. And he'll be building his profile as a respected commentator on rape and other crimes.

Not bad for dashing this off in a month at the most while doing other things.

It's not as if a serious study, which this wasn't, makes anything like this money if it's not written by a monkey off the telly.

Rape is always going to be different from other crimes, because it can spring from an intimate situation that in itself may be consensual, and involves activities that are usually done for pleasure. There is really no other crime like that.

Many rapes come out of something that at least initially was consensual, and the people involved may have very different perceptions of if or when a line is crossed.

I also am not sure that it is really so reprehensible to suggest women have something precious to protect in the form of their modesty. (as do men.) Not least because we are social animals that rely on signals in all of our interactions.

chandellina, because being 'modest' doesn't protect you from rape. Plenty of rape victims wearing perfectly sensible clothes are testimony to that - as are children. If being 'modest' meant rape was impossible, there would be no rape in Islamic countries with severe restrictions on what women do and where they go. This is not the case.

And wearing a short skirt is not a crime; and the sentences for crime in this country are not doled out by random men; and do not include rape.

No, I didn't mean modesty protects anyone from rape, more musing on anger that anyone could question women's right to dress in minimal clothing with no repercussions. Not suggesting rape is a repercussion of scanty clothing but sexual interest certainly is.

Because of the reciprocal thing though chandellina I wouldn't have thought there could be much room for "very different perceptions of if or when a line is crossed"
I would think a good man knows when a woman has decided "no" or "not any more" - even if that was during consensual sex (which is the most legally tricky situation I guess)

Ah, chandellina, I see what you mean, but I think if you start debating 'well, she was wearing xxxxxxxx' then you risk blaming the victim and excusing the guilty.

Juggling, I don't think you need to be 'good' not to rape someone. I think any man who isn't a disgusting waste of space knows full well whether his partner is participating or enjoying him or herself (or conscious). You don't have to be 'good', you just have to be a normal human being.

Juggling, there have got to be instances where it is almost impossible to define that point much less that both parties are in agreement on there having been one. I remember being with a guy I wasn't planning on having sex with, who in the midst of things said he didn't want to have sex. I said fine, me neither, but we kept at it and eventually he said-well, if you want to we can. I didn't and we didn't but if we had it could have been a bit grey in retrospect. At least there was a verbal exchange though.

Of course there are other crimes like rape. Fraud, theft, blackmail, assault, manslaughter, murder - anything involving deception and misinterpretion and that might even spring from a pleasurable situation, from one person's point of view at least, which is er, most crimes isn't it?

None of those other crimes are practiced in different circumstances between an alleged criminal and victim for mutual pleasure.