Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nick Ross on rape - warning you may feel the need to punch a wall

484 replies

DuelingFanjo · 25/05/2013 23:09

sorry it's a daily mail link.

I am full of rage, particularly his comments on aggravated rape. Wtf. Presumably he means that there are situations in which he will not be able to stop himself from raping someone because it is aggravated. This has made me so angry. Please they'll me he no longer works for the BBC. I truly hope he loses his career over this. How the hell are we supposed to educate people who think like this?

OP posts:
gordyslovesheep · 28/05/2013 10:20

A man puts his penis in a woman or another man without their consent ...failing to see any grey

squoosh · 28/05/2013 10:33

Nope, no grey to be seen from where I'm looking either.

A lot of shady behaviour but no grey.

BarbarianMum · 28/05/2013 10:35

Well put Cory

I also propose that, when the wealthier sections of our population are burgled or robbed, some time should be taken to consider whether they are inadvertantly complicit in the crime by tempting others. Perhaps the wealthy among us could stop wearing expensive jewellery, or owning large homes, or driving sports cars.

In fact, anyone displaying more than the median degree of wealth should accept that they bear some responsibility to any crimes of theft commited against them.

Wonder how that would run in Whitehall?

LeStewpot · 28/05/2013 12:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 28/05/2013 12:56

I reckon the daily mash link says it all. And its vey vey funny.

DjuicyUnchained · 28/05/2013 13:10

I agree with you, LazyJane.

YoniMatopoeia · 28/05/2013 13:17

Loving the daily mash link.

CarnivorousPanda · 28/05/2013 15:02

So he was presenting Crimewatch for all those years with these sort of views?

The underreporting of rape, the low rates of conviction for rape, these are the real scandals.

Not to mention the seemingly endless sickening procession of cases of abuse, rape and murder of girls and women in the news recently.

How depressing.

claig · 28/05/2013 15:34

As someone said above

"Did he even READ this shit before he published it?"

What about editors and friends etc, did they foresee no problem with any of it?

I think the chapter that LeStewPot linked to is no longer available online.

I think there was a mention that one of the chapters in the book is on race. I am starting to wonder what research that will quote now?

claig · 28/05/2013 15:46

Sorry, I have found the link to that chapter. It is still online.

FreudiansSlipper · 28/05/2013 17:45

read the chapter what utter rubbish and feel even more angry quoting stats without looking at them fully. What this is really about is men suffer as much if not more than women as we more often hit first Hmm or hit back (how dare we defend ourselves) and women should take responsibility for themelves to not drive men to commit such terrible crimes Angry and that we are liars not to be trusted better let men decide if they raped us or not

and referring to Erin Prizzey as a feminist hilarious she will be overjoyed at that Grin she hates feminism it is destroying families according to her

very very badly researched and he had an agenda one can not help but wonder why

Darkesteyes · 28/05/2013 17:50

Bet i can guess why Ross chooses Italy as a holiday destination Not exactly a country known for its womens rights.

Lazyjaney · 28/05/2013 18:58

"A man puts his penis in a woman or another man without their consent ...failing to see any grey"

Replace "penis" with "knife" and the law, in all it's gray nuanced gradations springs into life....

I suspect I'm one of the few who actually read the whole chapter, i think its been twisted by right and left for their own ends, and I suspect few on here have read any of it except that deliberately quoted out of context by various bloggers and journalists with axes to grind.

From what I could see most of the research he quoted is fairly sound, but when it's all added together it mounts a fairly strong critique on the way domestic violence and rape is policed. I think it's actually some of his throwaway lines that get him into trouble - as Claig said WTF were the editors doing?

He even predicted feminist groups would react strongly, just not how much I guess Grin

cory · 28/05/2013 19:10

"Replace "penis" with "knife" and the law, in all it's gray nuanced gradations springs into life...."

Does it? When my friend's ds was robbed at knife point some years back I don't remember any grey areas or suggestions that he had driven his mugger to do it.

FreudiansSlipper · 28/05/2013 19:22

I read it and was even more annoyed I know how the mail twist things to get a response

the research is poor and not backed up and not fully researched and he claims people to be something they are most certainly not

also having been involved with victim support he should know that victims will often play down what has happened to them and the truth is too much to accept and will often blame or partly blame themelves but as I said before that does not fit his agenda of men suffer just as much and women have to (sometimes) take responsibility of what others choose to do to them

no means no, forcing a women to have sex is rape, when you have sex with a women who is so drunk she is unconscious or unable to make any decision is rape it is all very simple no grey areas and what man would want to do this a man who is a rapist a man who makes these sort of excuses for why other men have raped is a man who thinks very little of women

LineRunner · 28/05/2013 20:18

I wonder what the rest of the book is like.

hopkinette · 28/05/2013 21:12

He even predicted feminist groups would react strongly

I suspect that if I wrote a book explaining that black people in South Africa were actually partly responsible for apartheid, I could confidently predict a strong reaction from a lot of people. It's not rocket science to predict that if you act like a massive cunt, people will call you a massive cunt.

MothershipG · 28/05/2013 21:37

The myth of the self-guiding penis Excellent Guardian article.

My favourite bit...
...if, like Ross, Wolf, Platell, and a thousand other hacks, you believe the myth of the self-guiding penis. It allows offenders to abdicate responsibility for their actions, and transfer it to seductive women; it leads people to assume that rape is a crime of passion rather than a cold, premeditated act of psychological manipulation and physical oppression; it reinforces the victim-playing notion among misogynists that female sexuality is a dangerous weapon; and it reduces men to the role of a barely sentient bag of hormones clinging desperately to the back of a rampaging penis.
(My emphasis)

Rapists rape, decent men don't, despite any so called provocation or temptation.

Jux · 28/05/2013 22:47

I've been raped, several times. Luckily at no point did I blame myself. It was other people who did that. It was way back in the early 70s when women and girls were supposed to be asking for it if we wore the wrong sort of clothes, or had a drink. I thought things had moved on sonce then and they had. They seem to be moving backwards again.

And you know what? It was WOMEN who blamed me back then.

The first time I was 15 and walking back from my friend's house. My dress was quite long and I had a high necked jumper on. Not really showing much flesh. Hadn't had a drink either.

What sort of world are we making for our children? I thought dd, at 13, would be spared this sort of crap. And especially the sort of crap that female apologists spout.

LineRunner · 29/05/2013 20:58

Jux, I'm really sorry about what has happened to you. I think you are right that we need to tackle the female as well as the male rape apologists.

Darkesteyes · 29/05/2013 21:23

Im sorry to hear that Jux Thats horrible. Bought new Radio Times today. On Tuesday 4th June there is a programme The Unspeakable Crime...Rape on BBC1 at 10.35.
the programme is from the perspective of the women whove been raped and the specialists at St Marys Sexual Assault Referral centre in Manchester.

CoalDustWoman · 29/05/2013 21:39

To all the women sharing their histories - i'm sorry they did that to you.

I've just realised what bothered me so much about that chapter, and what gives his game away. The bit about the rape featured on crimewatch and the drugging. In questioning the use of drugs, he is questioning whether that woman was raped. An identifiable woman, at least to her. What a turd.

webchat, webchat, webchat

MadamFolly · 29/05/2013 21:54

Just had a chat with my parents about this issue and actually got a bit upset.

They were saying all the stuff about people (men and women) needing to take responsibility for their own safety. I f you are drunk, alone and in a short skirt then you attract the wrong type of attention.

Would not admit to this amounting to victim blaming. Got very cross when I said you were statistically more in danger around people you know. Said no one they knew would take advantage of a girl. Got very very cross when I suggested that they probably do know someone who would do that as I have done in the past. Their friends aren't like that apparently.

They also used the story of a girl who goes to bed with someone and cries rape in the morning. Said I was wrong that it was v uncommon and unrelated to the main issue.

Said I was using politics and twisting their words. Actually got upset enough to go to bed early and am MN from bed.

Darkesteyes · 30/05/2013 01:35

Madam my parents are exactly the same. Know how you feel Its fucking anger inducing.

badgeroncaffeine · 30/05/2013 01:46

I haven't read all 17 pages, but this is the same plonker who continued to loudly state that he believed Barry George was responsible for Jill Dando's murder, when it was quite obvious he wasn't.
He is a total cretin of the highest order. It's a shame that as ever, people don't respect the person, but respect their words enough to have long debates on them. A very human trait...