Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nick Ross on rape - warning you may feel the need to punch a wall

484 replies

DuelingFanjo · 25/05/2013 23:09

sorry it's a daily mail link.

I am full of rage, particularly his comments on aggravated rape. Wtf. Presumably he means that there are situations in which he will not be able to stop himself from raping someone because it is aggravated. This has made me so angry. Please they'll me he no longer works for the BBC. I truly hope he loses his career over this. How the hell are we supposed to educate people who think like this?

OP posts:
Sunnywithshowers · 26/05/2013 23:52

((((Couthy))))

CouthyMow · 26/05/2013 23:56

I'm ok. Until I read articles like this that are just, well, eurgh!

Makes me bang my head against a wall that there are genuinely people out there that think like this.

I am in no way the 'victim' that I used to be, and I certainly don't think that ANY of the rapes I have been through were in any way MY fault.

Unless I had a neon sign above my head saying 'Rape me' that I've forgotten about...

Nope, think I would have remembered that.

I think it's far more plausible that the people that raped me were rapists, than that I was somehow inviting them to rape me by virtue of owning a vagina...

CoalDustWoman · 26/05/2013 23:57

I find the whole rape apology thing bizarre, in England particularly. The English are a nation of social nuance, acutely aware of every move, phrase and glance, placing people into reasonable or not, middle or working class (no other, it seems) and observing social graces to a degree that is found bizarre to other countries' people. AIBU is testament to that. But we have to suspend that level of acuity when it comes to men in sexual matters. All of a sudden, they are clueless when it comes to ascertaining whether a woman is consenting to have a penis put inside them.

I call bullshit.

hopkinette · 27/05/2013 00:02

The way I'm reading what he's saying, it's like the ONLY "real" rape - where the victim bears no responsibility - is stranger rape. Taken to its logical conclusion, this implies that simply by getting to know a man in any way, a woman is giving some degree of consent for him to fuck her.

He also seems to want to differentiate between two types of rape: rape that are caused by "temptation" and rapes that aren't. So if you get raped in your own bed in the middle of the night by someone who's broken into your home, the fault lies with the rapist and you're off the hook because you did no tempting. But in pretty much any other situation, it would seem, you're partly to blame by virtue of having paraded yourself about. Two types of rape means two types of rapists: bad ones and not-so-bad ones. I wonder why Nick Ross needs to believe that some rapists are not really bad people.

Darkesteyes · 27/05/2013 00:03

Agree Coal Couldnt help noticing that the five live discussion involved four men and one woman.

Darkesteyes · 27/05/2013 00:08

Lady called Morag on there now is grt

CoalDustWoman · 27/05/2013 00:11

I hope that women under Yewtree have the support to come forward. And that his wife is a Mumsnetter.

Webchat, Webchat, Webchat!

hopkinette - but that's what many people think. More than you would think and in an amount that would scare you, both from a a being alone with them point of view, and in that of having them on a jury in a rape trial.

It's really scary. Should I be thinking that all men are rapists like they do? It confuses me - I'm a feminist and that's what I'm supposed to think, so I am told. But I don't. But the very people who don't like feminists think that all men are rapists. It's a total headfuck.

hopkinette · 27/05/2013 00:25

It is really hard, CoalDustWoman. Really hard. Being told constantly, directly and indirectly, that women who get raped "had it coming" or contributed to their own fate in some way - that some action that is totally innocuous, and which would be meaningless in any other context, can be retroactively interpreted as consent - is utterly mindbending and crazy-making.

I know that a lot of people, probably the majority of people, hold the view that it's the victim's fault; and it's amazing how angry people get when you challenge it or even refer to it. I don't know what the answer is.

CoalDustWoman · 27/05/2013 00:37

I knowSad

I think where I really struggle with this is that I try and put myself in a position where I am doing something to someone for my own gain where they are showing no enthusiasm. Sexually, it's a no-brainer. I can't even really conceive of it. I don't think I am unusually attentive, but perhaps I am. But, for example, the thought of hopping onto a guy's morning wood when they are just laying there asleep and going at it to my own orgasm then rolling off... It is so far away from something that would even enter my head. And if I did, it would be sexual assault. Would anyone even question that it wasn't his fault for not getting up to go and pee and therefore ridding himself of the means for me doing what I did? This is what I don't get about the female "grey area" types. Is this what they are doing?

hopkinette · 27/05/2013 00:59

I love her

CoalDustWoman · 27/05/2013 01:17

Great article, depressing comments. As usual.

And another thing that fucks me off about his attitude is that he is saying that, I can protect myself against a rapist by getting a taxi (look how well that turns out for some women, just this weekend), dressing modestly (Can't be raped in jeans in Italy or Australia) or a plethora of other edicts as to how I should behave, but by his reasoning all I am doing is making sure that I am not the victim.

If you follow his logic, another woman will be.

hopkinette · 27/05/2013 01:17

Why are people OBSESSED with the "walking home alone at night" trope WRT rape? The argument being that you're sorta-kinda-a little bit to blame if you get raped while you're walking home alone at night - you know, being visible and alone and all that, a bit like a laptop in a car, just begging to get stolen. Rape isn't regarded as a fair or suitable sentence/punishment for any actual crime, so why the fuck is there this attitude that it's a fair or suitable result of deciding to walk home alone?

Jux · 27/05/2013 01:39

People should be brought up with the belief that the default position is 'no' to sex. Rather like the default position being 'no' to any other crime.

Somehow or other that is not how it is.

So sorry, to those of you who have experienced rape.

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/05/2013 03:07

I don't drink alcohol or go clubbing.

I am Muslim and wear hijab so am very covered by my clothing.

Not for one single second do I believe that any of that makes me "safe" from being raped. Why would a rapist care about a few extra bits of fabric?

I am also sure that if god forbid, any sort of assault did happen to me, I'd still have to face some defence lawyer claiming that I was sexually repressed and secretly wanted it.

Let's be honest, if there was a magical item of clothing that protected us from rape, we'd all be wearing it. But there isn't and clothing is just a distraction from putting blame where it belongs: on the rapist.

That's another thing I despise about these articles, they pretend that women aren't scared of rape, when in fact, we are all raised to be terrified of it and restrict our lives accordingly.

RedHelenB · 27/05/2013 07:10

Hopkinette - male or female you are more vulnerable on your own at night, not just because of rape but mugging, being picked on by some drunken louts etc. Having said that, statistically it IS safe to walk alone at night, there isn't a rapist round every corner.

RedHelenB · 27/05/2013 07:17

Couthy - obviously I am talking about when you willingly invite a man in your room & get into bed with them, there is a grey line. Totally different to your examples. Of course it is rape at 4 even if you were saying yes,

RedHelenB · 27/05/2013 07:18

Oh & I know you weren't saying yes & that no child would, I was speaking hypothetically!

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 27/05/2013 08:09

obviously I am talking about when you willingly invite a man in your room & get into bed with them, there is a grey line.

No there isn't. I willingly get into bed with DP every night. Does that entitle him to help himself to my body without consent?

RedHelenB · 27/05/2013 08:30

No but if you were doing the preliminaries as it were then it would seem as though you might be expecting the whole thing if you didn't say "that's enough now."

RedHelenB · 27/05/2013 08:37

No but if you were doing the preliminaries as it were then it would seem as though you might be expecting the whole thing if you didn't say "that's enough now."

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/05/2013 08:39
Confused

Erm, no. It wouldn't seem that way.

Why would it?

Lazyjaney · 27/05/2013 08:42

He is saying that the DM has twisted his argument, and that the book is fact based, on some of the latest research. Has anyone here read the book?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/05/2013 08:45

TBH, I wouldn't put that past the Mail, but I do wonder just how far one can twist an argument?

People have pointed out that some of the things the mail has him stating as facts are either untrue or rather selective. Now surely that is the sort of thing that you can insist the Mail should correct? I think unless he puts a fairly extensive correction out there, it's not excusable.

It also sounds like a ploy to get people to buy the book, which seems a bit daft since, TBH, there are plenty of actual experts on this subject, aren't there?

ZillionChocolate · 27/05/2013 08:51

Hands up then, who's going to buy his book?

limitedperiodonly · 27/05/2013 09:01

While I can sympathise with Nick Ross for the distressing experience of appearing as a rape apologist in the Daily Mail it's not as if he couldn't have expected it to happen.

I hope he's more careful next time he's got a book to flog.

Swipe left for the next trending thread