to show my support for the Armed Forces

[CuntPuffin]

Following yesterday's atrocious incident, I chose to wear a Help for Heroes shirt today. I have just been told off by a colleague, saying it was insensitive and inappropriate.

Bearing in mind I am ex-force as is my husband, I disagree and am proud to show my support for our Armed Forces. And told him this in fairly clear words.

Have I got this really wrong, or has he?

It was a famous quote. There are variations of it.

@Crowler my point is that whether or not you disagree with the war, you cannot and should not disrespect the armed forces because of it.

They go where our government tell them to. I was dead against the original invasion of Iraq. We certainly can't go invading other countries cos we don't like them.

But that was the decision of the government, not the army.

I still respect our armed forces but not necessarily the government which sent them in the first place.

Hope that makes sense

wow it was like you were there LRDtheFeministDragon.

Do you even know the rules of engagement. Killing innocent civillians? Our rules state that you cannot engage the enemy unless you feel that your life or the life of anyone else is in danger. even then you have to have a clear shot. We do not go guns blazing into a firfight whilst innocent people are there. For every live round (bullet) that is fired, it is investigated to make sure where the bullets have gone and also it was justied in its use. I suggest you either stop reading the press or watching rambo films because it realy is not like that.

Also did you know the Army act more as police men rather than dogs of war.

space, are you seriously trying to suggest that in Iraq and Afghanistan, no civilians have been killed?

Really?

Very hard to believe you.

You can kid yourself all you like you're more or less the police, or more or less the Red Cross, but ask yourself this: if that were true, why does the army exist as well?

Coments like above must make those servings stomachs turn to know they risk life and limb for the likes on here that have no respect

Hmm, not really, because I understand that I chose to do a job that not everyone would appreciate.

I also understand that very few civilians know the sort of thing we do on Ops, the 'good' that we do that isn't publicised as well as the 'bad'

I don't need the respect of people that do not know me just because I happen to wear a uniform.

Almost 20 years ago (Christ I'm old!) I was in Bosnia protecting the Bosnian Muslims from persecution. Some of the incidents I was involved in back then were probably 'heroic' but I don't see myself as a hero. 10 years ago I was in Iraq, again maybe some of my actions then were 'heroic' but I'm still not a hero.

I can honestly say I don't know any soldiers that consider themselves heroes - they consider themselves soldiers and nothing more. If a soldier started calling himself a hero in my presence I'd think he was nothing but a Walt.

H4H is a charity. H4H is nothing more than a catchy name for a charity. It raises a lot of money for people that need help and I'm sure those people and their families are grateful, but it is not a charity I support and do not donate to it.

OP should not be denegrated for wearing her TShirt any more than someone wearing a Macmillan TShirt or CLIC TShirt should.

LRDtheFeministDragon - i know that there have been innocent lives lost but not due to the deliberate act of our Armed Forces.

How do you think the Taliban fight?, not in uniform, they wear civilian clothing, burkas etc. they try to blend in with the civillians, they then attack in a crowed place to maximise the damage caused. they do not care for their own coutry men (in fact alot of fighters come from Pakistan and cross the boarder to fight). they then use the damage for their own propaganda.

There wopuld be less civilian casualties if the freedom fights put on a uniform (did you notice i used the word freedom fighter).

space, I never said it was deliberate.

Do you really not get that this isn't a binary thing? I am not explaining why I'm uneasy with the war because I support the Taliban. Shock as that may be to you.

I am uneasy with war. Full stop.

It bothers me that on a thread where most people have suggested the OP wasn't doing anything wrong, and a few have suggested that maybe she will be misinterpreted (which is hardly crime of the century material), you still feel dissatisfied unless you are cheerleading a rousing round of applause for our troops.

Niceguy, sounds like we're on the same page (perhaps because you're nice?) but as has been exhaustively discussed on this page - some people find it weird that you must declare respect. Normally, we would just assume that people respect people for the job they do out of normal human decency.

I fucking wish that people would realise that it is not just soldiers in the Armed Forces, there are the Royal Airforce and the Navy as well! It boils my piss that they are all put under the blanket term of 'soldier'.

OP YANBU. I shall be wearing my H4Hs hoodie as and when I see fit. My DH is serving, he does as he is told. He joined in 1986, it was a totally different world then.

DS1(18) is just about to start the application process. He knows what he is signing up for, but IMO it is just as well there are people like him who still want to join up. They don't just go off to Afghanistan, they do a lot of other jobs too. Remember the floods in Pakistan? I saw my old neighbour running out of the back of a chinook with food and aid.

I am really, really grateful for the job the Forces do. It is hard work, unless you have lived in it you will never totally understand it (I am not being patronising).

LRDtheFeministDragon - i have never said that the Armed forces needs their own cheerleading group.

This started because people were saying that H4H T-Shirts represented thugs and racists.

I don't support War, in fact i despise war but i am not naive to think that we could disband our forces and live happily ever after.

I fucking wish that people would realise that it is not just soldiers in the Armed Forces, there are the Royal Airforce and the Navy as well! It boils my piss that they are all put under the blanket term of 'soldier'.

^^^this.

I really don't think that is what people were mostly saying, though.

People have said that some thugs and racists are wearing these T shirts. That's horrible, and I imagine particularly horrible for the people who work for or benefit from the charity. It is also something the OP, unfortunately, has to deal with, but hopefully she can.

I don't see why it has to lead in to some kind of 'if you're not with us you're against us' paranoia.

LRDtheFeministDragon - Most of the Armed forces don't expect you all to support them but they don't actually expect you to tell them how wrong they are etc.

If you don't support the armed forces then fiar enough but don't go to the extream of slagging off the very people who protect you.

I do wish people would stop representing the services as a combination of the Red Cross, the United Nations and the police.

The primary function of the armed forces is to fight. It is naive and misleading to try to pretend otherwise. Despite the recruiting material. And there is collateral damage when fighting happens. To pretend otherwise is even more naive and misleading.

spacefrogg1 where exactly did LRD slag the armed forces off?

Oh, come on.

'Slagging off'?

I think that these wars are wrong. If someone in the armed forces feels they deserve everyone else to let go of their moral conscience, that is immensely arrogant. Why would you feel you get to do that?

I'm not 'slagging' anyone off, but I do think that it is valid to be dubious about the wars this country has got involved in. That is why, for some people, this is a political issue.

If I don't believe these wars are right, I am entitled to that belief, and I'm afraid you don't get to dictate that. Nor does anyone else.

I think we're wandering a long way from the original subject, since I've seen no evidence the OP shares your extremism.

LRD is not 'slagging off'. She's one of the more measured contributors to this discussion, I think.

Agree LRD. Obviously a nice, normal person would be on the side of a poor young guy who was murdered rather than on his killers's side, if we really have to be talking about "sides".

I just don't see why one would wear an item of clothing, or post a status update on FB, or fly a flag in order to "prove" it.

And people choose to join the army in this day and age in this country. They are not conscripted.

Seeker, My DH's primary job is to fix aircraft not to fight!

seeker - i have never said our HM Forces were the red cross but they do activly police, That is the role of the foces when on peace keeping.

LRDtheFeministDragon - care to explain my extreamism?

Interesting that you picked on that, rather than the fighting/collateral damage point.....

I'm afraid I can't fully explain your extremism as it seems indefensible to me, but I imagine it's a mixture of misplaced patriotism, a knee-jerk reaction to a perceived threat, and possibly a dose of cognitive dissonance about the role of the military in war.

Since you asked.

LRDtheFeministDragon ha ha, fair enough, not sure how you got to that point when i clearly told you what it was actually like on a real live operation. such as policing, building schools and playing football with the local kids.

Not sure about miss placed patriotism but i think it proves my point. Thanks.

No, it's not interesting at all, assuming that you are talking to me. He joined up to learn and be able to fix military aircraft. They play a lot of roles within the military. He did not join up to fight.

I know that when there is military action there is collateral damage on both sides.

I think seeker was talking to spacefrogg, landofsoapandglory.