to show my support for the Armed Forces

[CuntPuffin]

Following yesterday's atrocious incident, I chose to wear a Help for Heroes shirt today. I have just been told off by a colleague, saying it was insensitive and inappropriate.

Bearing in mind I am ex-force as is my husband, I disagree and am proud to show my support for our Armed Forces. And told him this in fairly clear words.

Have I got this really wrong, or has he?

[LondonJax]

The Help for Heroes shirt is not political - it's been politicised over the past 24 hours by the extreme right. If we're not careful it will go the same way as the English flag and, if it has to be seen as anything other than the charity shirt it is at the moment, it should be as a way of saying extremists are not going to win in this country.

As for the fact, as LRD points out, the hero rhetoric allows the government to hide their heads because there's a charity supporting injured armed forces personnel, I don't see that it's the 'hero' label that does that. I've helped to raise cash for the hospital that performed my son's heart procedure as the NHS didn't have enough money to supply specialist 'child size' equipment. It's a children's hospital. In Britain. It performs heart operations. And it couldn't afford the right size equipment. Whose responsibility is that? So it's not the hero label that makes the government 'shirk' it's responsibility. If that's the case then we shouldn't have British Heart Foundation, Breast Cancer Awareness, Great Ormond Street etc. cos they are all helping to support people in need. Help For Heroes is a catchy marketing name. Just like using pink as the Breast Cancer Awareness colour is a catchy marketing number. Rightly or wrongly pink is seen as a feminine colour. No one is seriously saying Breast Cancer only applies to women. No one seriously thinks every member of the armed forces is a hero. But...I wouldn't like to do their job, just like I wouldn't like to have to go into a house where blood was seeping under the front door (as a police officer friend of mine had to do a few years ago), nor would I like to have to deal with a violent drunk or drug addicted in A&E. That's why I've never applied for those jobs! My police officer friend often questions why he does the job. Then he has a good day and he understands why. Just like, I imagine, a squaddie questions why he/she does the job when something goes wrong (colleagues or civilians hurt for example), then they see things going right and they understand.

The other thing to remember is that when you sign up for the armed forces, you sign for a number of years. You can't just resign, you can't walk out just because you disagree with a stance or an order. And, yes, I imagine many new recruits sign up thinking it's going to be like Rambo only to discover for them it's more like Apocolypse Now - but many others get a sense of worth and achievement from the good days.

As for the OP question. I asked a Muslim friend of mine, today, if they'd be offended by someone wearing a HFH t-shirt. Their reply was 'no, I'd almost expect it. As long as they were wearing it out of respect for that young soldier and weren't looking at me like I'm the enemy, I have no problem'. As for me. I probably wouldn't have worn it but, as someone once said 'I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it'.

[LtEveDallas]

I am wondering is why anyone would join the armed forces with no expectation that they would ever have to go to war

But who said that in the first place Hester?

Admittedly when I joined up (24 years ago) Iraq was kicking up for the first time, but other than that I had no expectation of war, but would have been prepared if needed. As I sure most sensible recruits would have.

I'm also questioning the growing elevation to automatic hero status anyone who puts on a uniform in this country

I don't see this, but maybe I am simply blind to it. H4H is all about helping the wounded from Iraq and Afghanistan. People call them heroes because they have been injured - that doesn't make all service personnel heroes - in fact H4H quantifies that themselves with their refusal to help service personnel injured across the board (which is why I do not suport them).

[PatPig]

When I was at school, the army recruiters came round. At that time, there was lot of talk about benefits and bonuses, but no real suggestion that you were likely to die.

[thebody]

Wear what you like op. I am proud that in Britain you can see a burka, a mini skirt, a sari and a scull cap all in one city.

That's inclusion and democracy.

Violence and hate has no base in any religion or faith.

It's just a blood lust wrapped up in a cause.

[HesterShaw]

Someone did upthread, Eve. I think PatPig's post is a very pertinent one actually - we had the same talk from the armed forces at school. There was a lot of talk of job security, teamwork, opportunities, travel and training, but little mention of having to kill or be killed.

[HesterShaw]

And finally, thebody has it.

Wear what you like.

[LtEveDallas]

but little mention of having to kill or be killed

Because in all honesty there is litte to mention. You are no more likely on ops to kill or be killed than you are in a RTA outside barracks. Yes lots of soldiers have been killed - or so it seems, but when you look at the ratio of those killed to those deployed the number is negligible.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

london - That is really sad about you having to raise funds.

But ... comparing cancer care and support for wounded soldiers just shows how different they are. No-one ever goes around justifying cancer, because it is an illness that doctors wish they knew how to treat better. It's terrible that the government doesn't provide enough money (or doesn't have enough money), but it's not the government who got people sick. OTOH the government (or rather, dear Tony) did commit to war and is now saying it can't afford to support the wounded. That is very different IMO.

[noddyholder]

The shirt has not been politicised in the last 24 hrs. EDL have been having hideous marches where I live on various occasions in the last few years and a large % of them are wearing those t shirts as well as carrying buckets collecting for HFH.

[thebody]

Then noddy good sensible people need to claim it back by wearing it.

Like the St George flag.

The EDL are a bunch of twats.

[seeker]

.

"Honestly everyone who joined up when i did, did not expect to go to war. We were not in conflict then"

That's the ridiculous, biassed recruiting process for you......

[anklebitersmum]

Drummer Lee Rigby was a 25yr old father with a wife and 2yr old son.

lest we forget

[PaperSeagull]

The murder of that poor young man was an atrocious and shocking act. IMO, wearing a T-shirt is an essentially meaningless form of support, but if it makes the OP feel better, why not? However, if wearing such a T-shirt was interpreted as support of racism, I personally wouldn't do it.

I'm American, so perhaps I have a slightly different perspective. The unthinking pro-military rhetoric we have been exposed to in the US over the past decade has been rather unrelenting. I opposed the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. It infuriates me when politicians trot out the cliches about soldiers "fighting for our freedom" and suggest that opposing war is somehow wrong and "unpatriotic."

I'm also a little wary when people say they support the troops 100%. What do they mean by that? I don't (and didn't) support the presence of US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, nor do I support many (perhaps most) of their actions there. My support for the troops means bringing them home out of harm's way and providing them with the best health care we can, including mental health care (sadly, the US has woefully failed many soldiers in this area). And even better, not sending them off to die in unjustified wars in the first place.

[seeker]

Well said, paperseqgull.

[jcscot]

I don't get this idea of "Support for the Armed Forces", either through Armed Forces Day or by wearing a H4H shirt.

Quite frankly, as a forces wife, neither my husband nor I feel any need for pats on the back or applause because of the job he does - which he enjoys very much. He get his fulfillment out of doing the very best he can no matter what his role or post, not because someone wears a shirt. I don't like the overtones of nationalism/patriotism

I don't see that wearing a shirt shows solidarity with the dead man or his family - we can only guess at the sorrow and distress that they must be going through and my heart does go out to them. I doubt, but I may be wrong, that lots of people wearing forces shirts will make them feel any better.

I have always felt uncomfortable with the whole H4H thing (and I have donated to them) because I feel that the money and services they provide, which are much needed, should be provided by the government as part of the military covenant. I also feel uncomfortable with the "heroes" tag - not everyone who serves is a hero, wounded, dead or alive. |It cheapens the word and the actions of those who are truly heroic. However, I accept the catchiness of the name and the ease of marketing it provides.

I think if people really want to support the soldiers, sailors and airmen, then they should badger their MPs to uphold the government's end of the Covenant.

[Ilovemyself]

So what is wrong in being patriotic. You can be proud to be British ( or English in my case) and still have respect for every other nation.

And part of being patriotic is supporting British items. Or people. Or armed forces.

As long as being proud of your differences does not entail bigotry to those not like you what is the trouble.

[ThenWeTakeBerlin]

LtEveDallas Why don't H4H help all service personnel?

[KittensoftPuppydog]

I think that there is nothing wrong with wearing it and showing support. Especially at the moment. It doesn't mean you are racist. It just means that you won't be intimidated by nutters.

[Lovecat]

"part of being patriotic is supporting British items. Or people. Or armed forces."

Sorry, but bollocks.

Loving your country does not mean defending it right or wrong. One of the things I like about being British is that we're not blind to our faults.

Kneejerk patriotism makes me very uneasy. In fact I'm with Samuel Johnson on the subject.

[AuntieStella]

H4H helps only those of recent conflicts because that it what its founders chose to do.

Others, notably RBL and SSAFA, help those from any conflict.

[HesterShaw]

Is he the one who compared patriotism to being a loving parent, someone who loves the good things about their child, but who wants the bad things to improve. If you support the bad things about your country, then patriotism becomes nationalism or jingoism.

[Blueandwhitelover]

i intend wearing mine to school tomorrow, exdh was forces, my dad was forces and I assist with a support group for children of serving servicemen and women.

[noddyholder]

Agree lovecat

[Ilovemyself]

Lovecat. Where did I say defending it right or wrong?

I didn't.

Of course we would be horrified if a British person committed a similar act of terrorism in another country. Or a British product caused death or misery. Or if our armed forces acted in a way they shouldn't. And in those cases we would be ashamed a Brit could do such a thing.

So I stand by my original statement about patriotism. I was patriotic before yesterday and will continue to be for the rest of my life.

[Saltire]

Iii dont support H4H all the time either for the reasons given bt Lt Eve. Instead we give to RBLS and rafbf and saaffa