to show my support for the Armed Forces

[CuntPuffin]

Following yesterday's atrocious incident, I chose to wear a Help for Heroes shirt today. I have just been told off by a colleague, saying it was insensitive and inappropriate.

Bearing in mind I am ex-force as is my husband, I disagree and am proud to show my support for our Armed Forces. And told him this in fairly clear words.

Have I got this really wrong, or has he?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

But what would you like people to say, land?

'I don't support the war, I think it is wrong, but of course, anyone who isn't fighting on the front line is good and anyone who is, is bad'?

That's daft, IMO. I don't think people fighting are 'bad' because of what they do, and I don't think people doing what your DH does are 'good' because of what they do. I just feel uneasy about the heroism rhetoric and the idea that you can't have reservations about war and be a patriot.

[spacefrogg1]

LRDtheFeministDragon - you can still love your country and not like war. I don't like war and i don't know any of my commerades who does. Unfortunatly it is a job that is nessesery.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

So you believe. Which you have every right to believe.

I think this illustrates why it's difficult to display political messages at work, though.

[HesterShaw]

So why join the army?

To me it's like joining the teaching profession if you don't like educating.

[spacefrogg1]

Why hester? did you know in the forces you can do any job that you can on civi street. Like being a doctor or a scientist or a mechanic, post man, radio op, office clark as well as a soldier.

Yes i joined as a soldier in 1999, never for one moment thought i would see a war, but things change. I joined becuse i loved being outside, keeping fit, rolling about in the mud. The Army was the right choice for what i loved. I left in 2005 shortly after coming home from Iraq.

[landofsoapandglory]

No LRD, not at all. What I am trying to say is that not everyone who joins the forces do so to fight. There are lots of roles within the forces. In my mind it is just as well we have people in the country who will join up in all roles.

The war that is being fought is not the military's fault, it is the Government's, so if you don't support someone you should support them IMO.

[Wholetthedogin]

I know the thread has moved on somewhat but I just wanted to add my experience to the thread...

Many years ago (think decades), I served with the Royal Artillery and for a whilst I was posted to the Woolwich Barracks. At that time the danger came from the IRA. We were told that when off duty and about town that we shouldn't wear army T-shirts and go marching around. The pub which is just opposite the entrance had been bombed by the IRA.

We were completely aware of the dangers. Of course this doesn't make it right and that you should be able to go about your life without fear. That applies to all citizens not just soldiers.

TBH I'm a bit confused as to why this story has been given so much press time. In any one day in the UK there will be many murders. Some due to domestic violence, some like this one will be political or racial.

[NeedSomeSun142]

WEARING A SHIRT SUPPORTING A CHARITY IS NOT MAKING A POLITICAL STATEMENT!!


Who gives a shit what someone chooses to wear?!?!

Why not be more offended by the actual murderers and what they claimed to be murdering for? I'm sure Muslims are offended that a few extremists have murdered in Allahs name, when Islam is meant to be a peaceful religion.

[Crowler]

If you don't support the armed forces then fiar enough but don't go to the extream of slagging off the very people who protect you.


Spacefrogg. Many people have made it abundantly clear that they do not view the current conflicts as protecting us. I think this is an important point to take on board.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

But it is a political statement.

It is possible to be offended by multiple things at multiple times.

I would have thought, to be honest, the 'political statement' is actually the most sensible route to go down for the OP, as that way, she can easily see whether other similar statements are allowed, and if so, can tell her colleague that he's overreacting. Which I do suspect he is, TBH.

land - ah, right, yes, got you.

And I agree about blaming the government not the individuals in the military, totally. That is very much what I have been trying to say on this thread, and why I think the hero rhetoric is so problematic and polarising. I think it is one of the things that allows the government to hide, really - they get to say look, there's a charity supporting these people because they're so heroic everyone wants to help, we don't need to bother.

[HesterShaw]

Well why not be a doctor or a scientist in civilian life then?

Why would you train to be a soldier and not expect to see a war? Did you think life would be all about football with little children and skiing down moutainsides, like in the adverts?

[spacefrogg1]

Crowler - I have made it clear the the Armed forces are protecting you at all times, even if you want them to or not.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

No, you haven't space. You've expressed your opinion that they are.

[NeedSomeSun142]

I still don't see how you can get offended by someone wearing a Help for Heroes shirt? Especially today, its a sign of respect to the poor soldier who has been murdered by two clearly disturbed individuals.

[spacefrogg1]

HesterShaw - becuse i liked to be out doors, getting muddy and generally larking about, being a squaddie offered that. Being a doctor does not.

Honestly everyone who joined up when i did, did not expect to go to war. We were not in conflict then.

[LtEveDallas]

I do wish people would stop representing the services as a combination of the Red Cross, the United Nations and the police

Red Cross? Well if providing aid, food, water and helping build shelter counts, then yes, done that.

United Nations? Assuming you aren't talking about the military deploying as part of the UN, which we also do, well if sitting between two warring factions trying to come to an acceptable and practical compromise counts then yes, done that

Police? Well policing, guarding, protecting, patrolling, showing a formal presence and instilling discipline, then yes, done that as well.

Fighting? Rarely as it's not my trade, but I would if needed. I would also accept that yes, there is collateral damage in war. I wouldn't want to be a part of it, but would accept my burden if I was. Although I have to say that the British Military holds an extrememly 'good' record in this respect and wide ranging attacks are far more calculated and accurate than other countries.

[spacefrogg1]

LRDtheFeministDragon - its not an oppinion when i have direct experience. You may not like it by the Amred forces are currently protecting you.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

It's an opinion.

[LittleRedDinosaur]

Yesterday was such a sad sad day. That poor boy's family. I can only imagine what horrible pain they must be in today. I think that is the most important thing to remember here and I think (hope) the OP was just trying to show support to that poor man's family and colleagues by wearing a HFH top.

My husband is in the army. He accepts the risk associated with his job when deployed overseas but should not have to accept the risk of being murdered on his way home from work in this country. The forces community has been really shocked by this.

I agree the "hero" label gets a bit silly at times and that it is such a shame that HFH seems to be being adopted by vile EDL morons but reading some of the comments above has really left me feeling quite . Why shouldn't we show support to our armed forces today?

[TheCraicDealer]

HesterShaw, if you think that all members of the RAF, Army and RN are purely warmongering, testosterone fuelled eejits then you're wrong. There are so many aspects of the forces that the average person on the street doesn't see. Basically if there's a job, there's an forces equivalent and a rank to go with it. My DP is a military policeman- yes, he's taught how to fight so he'd know what do if he had to, but it's not his role day-to-day. He's there to arrest hellions who get in fights outside the pub, investigate burglary, gather evidence in cases of domestic violence...I could go on.

Perhaps because I get told tales of some of the army's worst examples of unbecoming behaviour I am under no illusion that they deserve the automatic label "heroes". In fact some of them are right cocks, like all sections of society. But they (and their wives and families) do have to put with with a lot of shit. Remember when it all kicked off in Libya in 2011? My DP and his mates spent two weeks in an aircraft hanger on stand-by in case they needed to go out. They don't put that on the recruitment posters or in the papers.

A point that some have made is that they don't consider that the present conflicts are defending us. Well, maybe not, that's a point for discussion. But if anyone thinks that a purely defensive military which only operates within British waters/landmass would be effective, I'd have to disagree. As ways to remotely gather information, plan and attack from a distance grow the more we're at risk as a nation from foreign entities. Sometimes an offensive tactic (this doesn't necessarily mean "war") will be needed, otherwise we face becoming a society that has to separate itself from the rest of the world in order to protect itself.

[PatPig]

Unfortunately the opinions of some of the people in this thread reinforce the opinions of the far right: compare with the US, where flying a flag, or showing respect for soldiers is not a political act.

[SkylerWhite]

Why do we need to compare to the US? Since when are they the gold standard of how service personnel should be treated?

[Crowler]

PatPig, these things carry debate with them in the US for the same reasons they do in this thread.

[HesterShaw]

HesterShaw, if you think that all members of the RAF, Army and RN are purely warmongering, testosterone fuelled eejits then you're wrong.

Please tell me where I said that . All I am wondering is why anyone would join the armed forces with no expectation that they would ever have to go to war. I don't think that's a strange or an unreasonable thing to wonder.

I'm also questioning the growing elevation to automatic hero status anyone who puts on a uniform in this country. I respect the armed forces, but then I tend to respect lots of people. I have seen websites out there telling me this young man was a "hero" when they have no idea whether he was one or not.

[TheCraicDealer]

Sorry, I was just reading between the lines with, To me it's like joining the teaching profession if you don't like educating.