To get wound up at cycle races on public roads

[Ilovemyself]

It is so annoying to me when I am on a journey and come across a gaggle of cyclists on an organised race. Quite often they are 3 or 4 abreast and all over the road.

Racing on the public highway foe motorists is a serious offence. Why are cyclists allowed to race.

1. Bad weather and low cloud - VERY poor visibility - but large numbers of cyclists doing an event, many of them without lights or decent reflective gear. As a driver it was really stressful driving this road in thick fog never knowing whether a huddle of cyclists would be round the next corner. Why on earth the organisers let this go ahead in those conditions I don't know.

But you do realise that you should be driving at a speed where you can safely stop within your field of vision don't you?

And the fact that I didn't come close to harming a single cyclist shows that I was. But that is not the point. The point is the cyclists were needlessly taking risks by making it harder for motorists to spot them. If a car was driving in thick fog with inadequate lights I am sure you would think that driver was being more than a bit negligent?

As a new driver, the last few months on the road have been truly enlightening. I have realised that that there are many wankers on the road. Some wankers cycle, some wankers drive buses, some wankers drive cars, some wankers drive lorries and some wankers are even pedestrians. Basically, wankers come in vehicles of all shapes and sizes, so be prepared for them all!

Goldmandra

I do about 15k miles in my car every year. I ride about 1.5k so am a driver primarily.

It's not cyclist arrogance, it's just simply a case of seeing cyclists as vulnerable road users. All this talk of should this and that is a complete waste of time. The bottom line is that there are crap cyclists and crap drivers. The only difference is that one is more vulnerable so as drivers we have to be more careful. It's not rocket science.

The onus, as a driver, is that you give greater consideration for the vulnerable. Just because someone is showing poor awareness/control or is being reckless it doesn't mean that you have to give them any less consideration, if anything you need to give them more but clearly this offends you.

What crashdoll said.
Wankers come in all vehicles.

What makes you think I wasn't careful or considerate? I didn't hit the man who thought that winning his little race was more important than keeping himself safe. Nor did I remonstrate with him in any way.

I can be considerate to other road users and careful because they are vulnerable, yet still be of the opinion that cycle races, by whatever name, are dangerous and ill advised and should not be permitted on public roads.

Your assertion that, because I was overtaking him when he veered towards me, I must need further driving instruction is arrogant.

What makes you think I wasn't careful or considerate? I didn't hit the man who thought that winning his little race was more important than keeping himself safe. Nor did I remonstrate with him in any way

Power complex? Is he supposed to feel lucky you didn't kill him?

You see, I would consider myself inferior to someone who was out there, under their own power, doing an activity. Unless I was an 8 stone supermodel who'd participated in the Olympics in her spare time.

Strange how sitting behind a wheel brings out the rage in some.

You simply come across as not having much experience of life, particularly competitive sports.

We must all obey the law, whether we like or not, no matter how arrogant we are. Otherwise we become criminals. So cycling or forms of legal racing are permitted on our roads because the majority opinion is in favour of this. You are the one at odds with the status quo.

Possibly I should rephrase how I said what I did

particularly competitive sports

Competitive sports should not be happening on open roads.

Is he supposed to feel lucky you didn't kill him?

Am I supposed to feel lucky that he didn't actually go under my wheels? The fact that he didn't was most certainly not attributable to his ability to ride safely.

Nothing brought out any rage in me. Shock perhaps and relief that an accident was avoided but no rage.

I have a power complex because I believe that allowing people to race on roads around other vehicles is dangerous?

Racing on a public road and changing lanes into the path of another vehicle would not be considered excusable if it were anyone apart from a cyclist doing it.

Why must the cyclist always be in the right no matter how dangerous, selfish or ill-considered their actions?

I absolutely support the right of cyclists to use the roads appropriately and firmly believe that, in order to keep themselves safe they should take a dominant line and cycle defensively. However there seems to be a pervasive culture amongst cycling enthusiasts that nothing any cyclist does could ever be wrong, that any inconvenience they cause to any other road user for any reason must be 100% justifiable and that any near miss must be due to ineptitude on the part of the driver of any motor vehicle in the vicinity. This lack of ability to reflect on situations as they occur must surely hinder them in developing their ability to keep themselves safe.

Why assume that, if I describe a situation where someone acted irresponsibly and that person was a cyclist, I must be unreasonably full of anger and aggression and therefore did something wrong because I was behind the wheel of a car? I find the whole attitude quite bizarre to be honest.

Hiding thread as I don't need to hear any more patronising c**p

"OMG Lazyjaney

.......

I'm no Einstien but even with those figures it's clear that cars outnumber bikes in the UK whereas bikes outnumber cars in the Netherlands. Thus criticising someone for their ability to grasp stats is perhaps a little wayward"

Perhaps if you used your head rather than hitting it, and read wot I rote proper, like, understanding would come more easily :)

In essence, given British drivers kill less people than even the Dutch and are among the best in Europe, it's just not credible to say that a far larger number of UK drivers are complete wankers, by European standards (and thus global ones), so the reason for biker-driver vitriol isn't the fault of the motorists

Now, Holland has far more bicycles than the UK per 100,000 people, and yet drivers are far happier - but they also have far more bicycle paths and kids are trained in the rules of the road and how to cycle considerately before they are even at high school.

Thus it's highly likely that the problem in the UK is due to too many cyclists on the UK roads, and/or UK cyclists are untrained and inconsiderate road users.

My experience of UK cyclists is when they are considerate, competent and obey the rules of the road, it's just fine. Which leads me to the conclusion that the main reason there is such vitriol in the UK is because so many cyclists are not considerate, nor competent, nor obey the rules of the road.

A conclusion this thread does nothing to dispel.

For what it's worth, I have driven in just about every country in Europe and North America, and quite a few others, and I have never come across so many crap cyclists in the UK. In fact I've never seen a cyclist shooting a red light anywhere except thevUK.

Crap cyclists as in the UK, that is

"It was the one who pointed out that you had the definitions of normal words in the English language wrong - I was one of the ones who reminded you that you weren't a lawyer and were making a hash of interpreting the law"

You all blended into an incoherent babel of irrationality, I think when you ( plural ) were arguing that there was a chasm between the meaning of Must and Should in the Highway Code, but that Should meant the same as Should Not (for cyclists at any rate) I realised you were all making a hash of interpreting the English language.

Its the sheep that annoy me, lying on the road, not moving over to the side even when they can see there is a queue of vehicles waiting to go past.

For what it's worth, I have driven in just about every country in Europe and North America, and quite a few others, and I have never come across so many crap cyclists in the UK. In fact I've never seen a cyclist shooting a red light anywhere except thevUK

Christ, you better not visit Utrecht then. Admittedly the roadworks outside Hoog Catherijne make it more difficult to run een red light now. Or Leiden. Or Groningen. Or even een kleine dorp like Geldermalsen or Culemborg. You would get a bit of a shock.

Holland has far more bicycles than the UK per 100,000 people, and yet drivers are far happier - but they also have far more bicycle paths and kids are trained in the rules of the road and how to cycle considerately before they are even at high school

Road cyclists only use fietspads when its very convenient. Too bloody slow and bumpy otherwise. Bikes are more important than cars and everyone knows this, even it not all like it. I'm not sure about the happy drivers though...most of my Dutch friends don't even own a car because its not necessary if you live in a big town or city, and car ownership is kind of discouraged by making parking expensive and difficult.

Certainly though, Dutch are trained in the art of getting a backy from an early age...sitting side saddle on a luggage carrier takes some mastering.

"Christ, you better not visit Utrecht then"

I lived in Utrecht for nearly 6 months, and in Amsterdam, I speak fluent Dutch. Anything else you want to tell me about Dutch cyclists vs English ones?

Fluent Dutch after 6 months? You must be a genius. No other Brit I know has ever managed that after even two years.

Zo. Maag ik U iets heele belangrijke vraagen? Bent U een duifje of een schaatje? Sinds geen fietsen want een duifje maaken. Meerstal.

or Paris. French cyclists and drivers treat red lights as street ornaments. Worse than our drivers. Heck, here I've counted 7 as a maximum number of cars that will go through after the red light. In Paris they didnt stop, even with the other cars coming and beeping.
Cars cosntantly run red lights in the UK and ignore zebra crossings, park on pavements. Bloody nightmare. Oh and drive up your backside and hoot at you when you are doing the speed limit. Not had a cyclist do that yet.

Lazyjaney

Surely you can't simply expect to make a valid comparison between deaths per 100,000 cars. Really?

Ok, so I did a quick Google and found that in 2010 we had roughly the same amount of cyclists in the UK as the Netherlands. We have a ratio of 3 cars to 1 bike in the UK whereas there are 2 bikes to every car in the Netherlands.

The stat that really makes the difference however is the fact that the Dutch cycled 10 billion miles in 2010 compared to 3 billion for the Brits (over 3 times greater distance). So yes, we may kill as many or slightly less cyclists but every driver in the Netherlands will come across a cyclist more frequently than here in the UK.

Per mile, cycling is much safer in the Netherlands by a large chalk and ultimately this is the stat that we are likely to value the most. The question is why the Brits are more likely to be killed or seriously injured when making much shorter journeys than the Dutch. It's most certainly not because the UK is safer!

ah, I see the OP is bored of winding the feminists up he goes for the next available target.
and being joined by the usual cycling suspects.

You're getting the hang of MN pretty quickly, if I may say.

Glad I have a follower Pan. What I am learning is people love to read what they want to read, rather than what is said. I never said all cyclists. Or perhaps everyone just has it in for me.......

ooh folks do love to read what they want to read, despite what's before them! You're right there. Don't forget to grow that extra thick skin tho' and I'm sure you'll be fine.

oh and avoid the Kenneth Williams 'infamy! infamy!' quip! You might just find they have.

I am thick and I have skin. Is that close enough lol

Close enough.

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been mentioned already, but there is currently an e-petition calling on the Government to promote cycling by implementing the recommendations in the "Get Britain Cycling" report. This was a report prepared by a cross-party parliamentary committee and I think it makes a compelling case for the Government to increase the number of journeys made by bike. A key point in the report is the need for road designs that take into account the needs of cyclists, eg proper segregated cycle lanes on busy roads, junction designs that consider cyclists, not just motorists. I would encourage everyone to sign the petition. (Google "Government petitions" and you'll find it.) Even if you're a motorist with no intention of getting on a bike, there are benefits to proper provision being made for cyclists (eg fewer short journeys made by car equals less traffic congestion and if cyclists have their own proper cycle lane they are less likely to get in your way!)