To get wound up at cycle races on public roads

[Ilovemyself]

It is so annoying to me when I am on a journey and come across a gaggle of cyclists on an organised race. Quite often they are 3 or 4 abreast and all over the road.

Racing on the public highway foe motorists is a serious offence. Why are cyclists allowed to race.

Of course, there are plenty of sociopaths behind the wheel, who find it most unreasonable that other people should exist in their roadspace.

Who wouldn't object to a cyclist suddenly swerving into the lane they are driving in because they are so focused on overtaking their fellow cyclists they are not concentrating on cycling safely?

Cycle on the roads by all means but please do so while concentrating on keeping yourself safe and giving due consideration to other road users.

Just as an aside. Are the people in dayglo jackets with red flags authorised to stop traffic on roundabouts to give priority to the cyclists who are 'not racing'?

Cycle on the roads by all means but please do so while concentrating on keeping yourself safe and giving due consideration to other road users.

Absolutely agree. This applies to all road users. There are knobs on the road whatever mode of transport but one thing is universal. It's our responsibility to approach with care and to consider those that are vulnerable first and foremost.

Let's not get back to the Highway Code again like the last thread as this should at least be patently obvious.

And the reason I don't ride at the very edge of the road (apart from the potholes,brambles that whip round your face,broken glass,roadkill etc etc) is because riding further out means people like him have to actually make the effort to overtake if they are behind you rather than just squeezing by

that is exactly what a cyclist is SUPPOSED to do. I teach my sons to ride an arms length from the kerb.

Lazeyjaney , I certainly don't think the road is an extension of the village green. I don't allow my children to play on or near a road and I teach them to respect it. But they have a right to cycle on it.

I once had a motorist (passenger) wind down his window and actually slap my arse as he overtook. Bloody wanker. Aside from the humiliation, what if I had wobbled or fallen off!

What I meant was that if approaching a vulnerable group in a car e.g. bike, motorbike, horse or pedestrian, then it is the drivers responsibility to exercise due care. I would say this applies irrespective of what the vulnerable are doing. Stands to reason really.

Goldmandra - you contradict yourself

"Who wouldn't object to a cyclist suddenly swerving into the lane they are driving in because they are so focused on overtaking their fellow cyclists they are not concentrating on cycling safely?"

You then say "concentrat[e]on keeping yourself safe and giving due consideration to other road users."

If you see a fast cyclist coming on a slower cyclist, is it not general common sense to think he might want to overtake? How is that any different that being on a road, and seeing a tractor, a slower car, and you in a faster car. You would anticipate that the middle vehilce might want to pull out - is that hard?

It depends though, suddenly swerving without looking behind you is inconsiderate. Looking behind you and slowly moving outwards, does clearly indicate to any other traffic that you are going to overtake. Considerate drivers behind me generally slow down once I look back at them, realising I am checking to move out.

You misunderstand. This wasn't a slow cyclist being overtaken by a speedier cyclist. It was three evenly matched cyclists trying to outdo each other and one made a misjudgement and ended up swerving into the lane I was occupying as I overtook them.

However, if a cyclist in lane one wished to overtake another, much slower cyclist in that lane surely they should indicate and pull into an appropriate gap in lane two like any other road user, not just swerve across when it suited them, expecting others to have read their minds.

Goldmandra

I agree that the sort of cycling you've described is poor but if you look at the highway code, the overtaking example shown in the photo shows the car in the opposing lane. This swerving is really no different than being blown sideways by a strong wind.

But ultimately if you can read the road then it is quite obvious what other road users are going to do. If not then perhaps an advanced driving course would be appropriate.

Regarding large groups of cyclists wearing numbers and marshals on the roads - these will almost certainly be sportives, which are organised rides over planned routes. They tend to be agreed with local police - and if marshals (possibly actual police officers) ask traffic to stop, then it is for the safety of all road users.

As a driver, pedestrian, horse rider, and cyclist, I really don't see the problem. When I'm driving, cyclists don't hold me up for more than half a minute. When I'm cycling, I'm frequently held up by motorised traffic - today I had to stop and wait for two cars and a bus to squeeze past each other which took a good three minutes. This was no big deal, despite the comparative impact being greatest on me, the slowest vehicle.

Everyone using the road is a person. Be kind to them, regardless of their means of transport.

The reason time trialling developed quite well in the UK is because it was traditionally so difficult in British society to get police permission for road racing, and time trialling is not technically racing, because the riders are racing against the clock, not each other.

But that is just a technicality because in pratice the cyclists behave like they are racing against each other.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really agree with the OP, because if the cyclists were not allowed to do this on the road where could they do it. And yes, all motorists should be vigilant and take care around cyclists. However, I do think that some cyclists do put themselves in danger by making it more difficult for motorists than they need to.

I see a lot of this kind of competitive cycling because a road I drive frequently is the A537 "Cat and Fiddle" road which is incredibly popular with serious cyclists. Two examples I have seen recently of cyclists not taking sufficient care:

1. Bad weather and low cloud - VERY poor visibility - but large numbers of cyclists doing an event, many of them without lights or decent reflective gear. As a driver it was really stressful driving this road in thick fog never knowing whether a huddle of cyclists would be round the next corner. Why on earth the organisers let this go ahead in those conditions I don't know.

2. Another day, many cyliststs - some "racing" some doing it for fun (FUN!!). We were on the down hill stretch behind a group of cyclists and approaching a bend. All the cars slowed right down because it wasn't safe to overtake the group of cyclists before the bend. However, we were travelling so slowly that some faster cyclists caught up and proceeded to overtake the line of cars on the outside and the inside and, in some cases, weaving in and out between the cars. All the motorists in that scenario were doing their best to be careful but the cyslists were making it damn difficult.

Where did this idea that there are no official road races on open roads come from? My husband takes part in them most weeknds - all British cycling endorsed.

5foot5 But that is just a technicality because in pratice the cyclists behave like they are racing against each other

No, its not just a technicality. In time trials, cyclists are not allowed to draft off each other (take shelter by riding behind), or ride in packs - it must be individual effort, or they will be disqualified. There is great cache in catching and overtaking your "minute man" - cyclists are usually sent off at one minute gaps. The rule book prescribes how to overtake and you have to do it quickly, or said drafting will occur.

Group riding is probably training rides or non-competitive sportives, both of which are allowed on roads because unless they are motorways, all sorts of road users are allowed to share them with cars.

Road races require police sanction. Unlike on the Continent, where the police hand over the control of the roads to the race organisers. It really is a wonderful atmosphere, to go along to a cycling race in Belgium or France, where the town centre is closed to traffic and theres usually a funfair, lots of food, tombola, etc.. Great atmosphere while waiting for the cyclists to return from their route.

I feel guilty when driving on a road full of cyclists - I mainly run for exercise now but used to do much more cycling. I am far more frequently held up by other vehicles when driving than cyclists, far far more. Life would be so much simpler if there weren't any busses, dithery doddery drivers, women putting their make up on and missing green lights, slow old cars, etc.. Sadly I cannot dictate who else uses the roads!

Well, where we live there are often 'packs' of cyclists in lycra, with numbers, going fast - they may not be in a race but they look as though they are! Last weekend we followed a group for about 5 mins before we could get past them, there were no 'watch out cyclists ahead' signs, there were no cars at the beginning and end.

They freak me out tbh because they are so vulnerable, you've got to get round them somehow (traffic jam behind you) but on our twisty roads it's really hard and the group is often much longer than a car. I hate overtaking them because you never know when they are going to wobble.

Where my parents live a man was nearly killed taking part in pentathlon - cycling on the road and hit by a car. It wasn't the cars fault at all, the cyclist just pulled out in front of him. But the driver will have to live with that forever.

That's why I don't like cyclists on the road - I'm scared they'll wobble/ pull out and I'll hurt them, even if I'm doing all the right things.

Another q - why don't cyclists have mirrors?

1) Bad weather and low cloud - VERY poor visibility - but large numbers of cyclists doing an event, many of them without lights or decent reflective gear. As a driver it was really stressful driving this road in thick fog never knowing whether a huddle of cyclists would be round the next corner. Why on earth the organisers let this go ahead in those conditions I don't know.

But you do realise that you should be driving at a speed where you can safely stop within your field of vision don't you?

Despite all these kinds of threads I've just started cycling again but am genuinely stunned at the sheer incompetence of the average driver.

If you don't know what's coming round a bend then is it not a teensy bit obvious that you might be driving too fast?

ladymontdore - if I had a mirror, how would you ever know I was going to pull out? I don't have indicators neither, but since I don't have a mirror, I look behind me, and the car following should see that and act accordingly.

you've got to get round them somehow (traffic jam behind you) but on our twisty roads it's really hard - no you bloody don't! You wait until it is clear!! Even if traffic is building up, if you can't see, you don't go!!

Most of us cyclists don't like a queue behind us neither, and I will speed up, or keep in where it is safe to do so to allow traffic to pass.

"Cycling is one of the most popular sports in the world, it really is quite bizarre to read the cycle-hating vitriol on here. I've only ever seen it come from Britain and the US"

I had a look at deaths per 100,000 motorists, WHO, 2010

UK - 7
Netherlands - 7
Germany - 7.2
France - 9.6
USA - 15

This implies that the average British motorist is not the problem here, they are equal in Wankerdom with the saintly Dutch and all those cycle paths

Therefore I would suggest the reason for all the vitriol is in fact the Wankerdom of the average British cyclist, who seem to know a lot about their rights but too often fuck all about their responsibilities

"I certainly don't think the road is an extension of the village green. I don't allow my children to play on or near a road and I teach them to respect it. But they have a right to cycle on it"

That "Right" comes with responsibilities though - to be in control of the vehicle at all times, competent in the rules of the road etc etc. I do t think an 8 yr old who can't ride properly fits the bill.

IMO too many cyclists are choc full of their rights but very sketchy on their responsibilities.

Looking at the WHO stats, there are about 13 times as many cyclists in the Netherlands, and 5 times as many in Germany than in the UK

www.ecf.com/wp-content/uploads/European-Parliament-2010_Promotion-of-Cycling.pdf

So, in the Netherlands, the deaths are significantly lower if you consider the number of bike trips - anyway, this is off topic.

Janey, you do seem to exemplify the attitude that "the cyclists are in my way, I have priority"

Chops - I don't think you understood what I was saying. You do have got to get round the cyclists eventually and in the example I was talking about it was five minutes before we could safely do so. If you've got a long queue of traffic behind you - who may not even realise why there was a queue, it is quite stressful. It's stressful because you're aware of the queue behind you, you are aware of the vulnerability of the cyclists and you don't know if one of them is going to suddenly swerve or wobble.
I ask why cyclists don't have mirrors because they often don't seem aware of what's behind eg going two abreast without looking. I followed a cyclist for over a mile the other day on a a narrow lane. He had ear phones on and was quite unaware that I was there - what was I meant to do - hoot and make him fall off in fright?

Oh, and I thought cyclists were meant to do arm signals for pulling put rather than just hoping the car drivers know what they are going to do.

And too many drivers put the blame of being unable to drive competently and confidently on the 'obstacle' ie the cyclist.

The driver is in control of the bigger vehicle. If you're worried you can't control it around other (legitimate) road users then, as was suggested earlier, perhaps an advanced driving course would be an idea.

I'm not worried about controlling the car I'm worried about the cyclists wobbling / swerving!

ladymontdore Another q - why don't cyclists have mirrors?

Because its possible to look behind you by turning your head, when not incased in the chassis of a car, which tends to cause blind spots in your field of vision.

I now have visions of the British leg of the Tour De France - cyclists on sit-up-and-beg "bicycles" with mirrors and lights, multitude of crashes due to the peleton trying to ride at speed in cycle paths and Mark Cavendish's winning sprint halted mid flow, as he stops to let a car out in front of him to get access to the Tesco.

Well don't overtake too closely then.

Also 'I followed a cyclist for over a mile the other day on a a narrow lane. He had ear phones on and was quite unaware that I was there - what was I meant to do - hoot and make him fall off in fright?'

LazyJaney he probably did know you were there but what would you have liked him to do? It was a narrow lane and you were behind him. He had as much right to be there as you. It's not a crime to be going slower than you are. Or must everyone get out of your way?

Oh lazyjaney please spare me the cod-definitions of rights and responsibilities after the hash you made of confusing "should" and "must" in the last thread! I don't think I can take any more! We've already been subjected to the muddled statistical interpretation!

Why not stop being such a drama queen, and just keep your head down and out of trouble when you're driving? You do seem to encounter a lot of difficulty in dealing with other road users.