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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

anti-FFs and pro choice?

103 replies

DidILeaveTheIronOn · 20/05/2013 14:04

I have seen some, not loads, but a definite number of extremely anti FF people on here. The ones that think FF mothers are irresponsible and owe their child more

Similarly, there are a lot of pro choice (abortion) people on here

I just don't really understand how you can be pro choice but against women choosing for themselves how to feed their baby. Shouldn't women be allowed to choose what to do with their bodies in every way conceivable?

Aware is lots more complicated than this, just wanted to open up a bit of a debate (NOT BUNFIGHT)

(Am EBF-ing and pro choice but curious)

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 20/05/2013 15:19

Yes.

Original poster
DidILeaveTheIronOn · 20/05/2013 15:23

Yes valium, it is an interesting issue if you look into it

OP posts:
Original poster
DidILeaveTheIronOn · 20/05/2013 15:23

Did not mean that to sound quite so flippant btw!

OP posts:
Jan49 · 20/05/2013 15:24

I am pro-choice re abortion and pro breastfeeding. I'm not sure that makes me anti-FF. I think formula should be treated like a medicine for those who can't BF rather than an alternative milk to BM. Ideally I think babies who weren't BF by the mother would receive BF from someone else either directly or in a bottle, instead of FF.

I don't think my reasons for either are solely connected to women's rights to choose what to do with their own bodies. I hate to think of a baby being born unwanted and in bad circumstances. It upsets me a lot to hear of children being neglected and ill-treated. It doesn't upset me to hear of foetuses being aborted. In nature there are lots of wasted sperm and eggs and the foetus is just a step further on the way to a potential human in a massively overpopulated world.

I think you have responsibilities if you choose to have a child. I think you should put that child first when it comes to things like BF, over and above your own inclinations or what seems convenient.

LittleMissGerardButlerfan · 20/05/2013 15:25

I FF both my children (for medical reasons which I don't need or want to go into) and I am pro choice too.

I also occasionally give my children fruit shoots and Gregg's sausage rolls. Someone call Social services quick Hmm Shock :o

Tee2072 · 20/05/2013 15:26

LittleMiss my son is currently having a lollipop, just because he wanted one. Call them on me too.

Playerpleeease · 20/05/2013 15:27

I am pro choice and pro bf and pro ff its up to the individual woman to choose how to feed her baby either way I'm not bothered.

wipsglitter I had a TFMR as my baby had anencephaly. Which means death within 24 hours of being born. Why has your experience made you pro life?

Original poster
DidILeaveTheIronOn · 20/05/2013 15:32

Thanks jan. I guess I thought most people who were pro choice, believed in it because they think a woman should be in control of her own body. I admit, this is coloured by my own strong feminist views on the subject

With genuine respect, I just can't agree with your view that formula should only be permitted for medical reasons. If I don't want to BF and am informed, why should I have to justify this to anyone (and in fact why should I have to prove I am informed)?

I am BF-ing, as I stated, but I still feel like it is my right to choose

OP posts:
WipsGlitter · 20/05/2013 15:38

Because people believe that to have a child like mine is a total calamity / worst thing that could and would chose to get rid rather than accept it was just their lot in life. I see my child leading a happy and fulfilled life but others will never see past his disability.

Solari · 20/05/2013 15:47

WipsGlitter I do think that many people choosing termination for a child with a disability are probably more fearful of the support they will or won't more likely get. They don't really know what to expect, and there is a stigma in society that frightens them even more (that can't go away fast enough).

There is also the difficulty with the fact that most medical professionals can't really tell you how the child will be once its born (even with a well-known condition like Down's). Some go on to lead happy fulfilled lives, and others are considerably more poorly, never independent, and require major medical input.

Having said that, I struggle with the idea of termination in cases where disability is involved... and have pondered it many a time myself (hopefully never have to face the decision). But when I have pondered it, it has mostly been the lack of support from society that has made me wonder if I could follow through.

Playerpleeease · 20/05/2013 15:52

Wipsglitter

But that's a completly different issue to abortion for whatever reason, wether it be TFMR or rape, incest, money, mental health etc.

TFMR are for a whole host of different illnesses, if I was in your shoes I would of made the same choice as you, to continue with the pregnancy.
But in my case, I mentally could not go through a pregnancy to watch my baby live for a few moments then pass away in my arms. Physically it was not a wise choice due to pre eclampsia and severe PPH when I had my DS. And my DS was 5yo, he would have to deal with losing a sibling, watch me be hospitalised and grieve.

You cannot compare our situations. I find it quite strange that you would go pro life because that would not solve the problem you stated in your last post

PolkaDotCups · 20/05/2013 16:00

I'm pro-choice as I think it is a woman's choice whether to have a baby, but I personally only see it as acceptable in certain circumstances. I don't think it should be taken lightly and used as a flippant form of birth control. I think it can be too much of an easy option. In somebody like Playerpleeease's situation I would terminate the pregnancy and I think that would be a very difficult and emotional situation to be in.

I'm pro-breastfeeding and persevered through awful problems to EBF my DD for 6 months but I'm not anti FF. Just think it is a shame when people don't give it a go. Again I think it can be too much of an easy option.

I don't think the two subjects are at all related.

At the end of the day it is down to the individual though and what I personally think doesn't matter. I'm happy for people to read up, be informed and make their own decisions and happy to live in a society that allows that.

WipsGlitter · 20/05/2013 16:07

No one can tell what any child's life will be like - autism, aspergers, birth related injury, life is not predictable.

I don't think it's to do with support - but am prepared to be corrected - its because the perfect picture isn't one with a child with a disability in it.

ReallyTired · 20/05/2013 16:08

What have the topics of breastfeeding or abortion got to do with each other. One is a feeding choice and the other is a matter of life or death. Breastfeeding may well be optimal, but properly prepared formula does not kill babies. In the past formula companies have behaved very badly in some third world countries, but this nothing to do with mothers who use formula and everything to do with greed.

Abortion is an emotive topic. However that is where the similarly ends.

Women who "choose" abortion tend to be utterly desperate. Often they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Having a child with serious disablities affects existing sibblings as well as the parents. A 14 year old rape victim is not in an emotional or fiancial position to take on a baby.
It is not a decision taken lightly. Often there is a terrible sense of grief afterwards.

In most cases the trauma of failing to breastfeed cannot be compared to someone who has had an abortion.

WipsGlitter · 20/05/2013 16:10

I'm not talking about your situation. I'm talking about when people have a termination for Downs and refer to that as a TFMR

WoTmania · 20/05/2013 16:15

Hmm I think YABU to conflate the two issues.
I'm pro-choice (not pro abortion as per your OP but pro women being a able to choose, hence pro choice) and pro breastfeeding but not anti-FF.
In fact, I'm a BFC and still not anti-FF as my job is to support women who want to BF and provide accurate info so mothers can make an informed choice. Most of us are run off our feet supporting women who want to BF so don't have the time to force it on women who don't want to even if we wanted to.
Likewise I have never had a termination but would support any friend/family member if they knew that was the best choice for them.

ReallyTired · 20/05/2013 16:17

How do you feel about abortion of a healthy foetus at 12 weeks for social reasons? Is an abortion for Downs at 12 weeks after the nucal fold transparency scan any difference to an abortion other reasons.

What medical conditons are truely incompatible with life?

MoominsYonisAreScary · 20/05/2013 16:20

I'm pro choice, I'm not anti ff. Ds1 was ff because I didn't want to bf.

MoominsYonisAreScary · 20/05/2013 16:22

I've also had a tfmr after my waters broke early due to incompetent cervix

Playerpleeease · 20/05/2013 16:26

reallytired

Anecephaly is truely incompatible with life. Google it.

wipsglitter

You said that you used to be pro choice but now you are not due to your situation.

So because of your situation, you feel the need to want to take away every woman's choice?

TFMR are not just for downs. So you cannot judge people without knowing there situation, it makes no sense.

MoominsYonisAreScary · 20/05/2013 16:32

wips did say that she was talking about tfmr concerning children with downs, not other reasons. Although there can be other complications for example problems with the heart

WipsGlitter · 20/05/2013 16:38

I said I found my previous pro-choice stance hard to reconcile with my own experience. But I've not said I'm campaigning for a change in the law so I'm not stoping anyone else doing what they want up do.

Playerpleeease · 20/05/2013 16:40

She said she used to be pro choice.
Pro choice is: A woman's right to choose
Its not: A woman's right to choose unless its xyz then she has no right to choose, she has to go ahead.

MrsHoarder · 20/05/2013 16:47

I'm pro choice but think that as a society we should try to provide sufficient support so that women don't feel a need to have an abortion when a condition is compatible with life. But I could never be pro life: that doesn't solve the lack of support problem.

I'm also pro bf, but don't judge mothers who have a harder time than me with bf so ff instead.

Its perfectly possible to believe that alternatives should be there whilst promoting one of the options as preferable.

MoominsYonisAreScary · 20/05/2013 16:49

Personal circumstances can change how you feel about certain things. It's easy to say you would never have a tfmr for example or you wouldn't have a termination at all until you are in the position.