To think that just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I hate feminism?

[TinkerSailerSoldierSpy]

Friend and I were having a discussion, I'm 18 weeks pregnant, and it was a bit of an inconvenient surprise, considering I've started a new job just 2 months ago.I mentioned that it wasn't going to look good, me taking maternity leave after not even being there for a year, and she suggested perhaps considering there was no dad on the scene and my new job, I should terminate. I felt a bit uncomfortable but told her that I could never do that as I'm pro life and view it as killing a child. She then proceeded to stare at me like I had an extra head and ask me why in a shocked voice. I explained my reasons and views and we got into an arguement about it, the usual stuff, what about in cases of rape and if the woman's not financially able to support the child, to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle? And she stormed out the house shouting that I was misogynistic and women have the right to their own bodies. Let me be clear, I certainly would never stop anyone from making their decision about an abortion, I just can't seem to get over the idea of it, it repulses me. But I wouldn't judge a woman who got one. I understand the other viewpoint but I can't agree with it myself, and in all other respects I would say i was very liberal about womans rights. When I mentioned it to other friend she said it was my views but they were quite outdated and misogynistic. Are they? I need advice, should I apologize to friend A?

The abortion of girls is due to the value being placed on boys. Its the knock on effect of living in a patriarchal society. Girls have been known to be killed at birth in India and China.

I disagree. A woman is more than an incubator for a foetus. She should be able to choose to abort at any stage during the pregnancy.

35 weeks compos?

she suggested ? I should terminate.

Well for starters your friend was bang out of order to say such a thing! I?m feminist and pro-choice. But you don?t talk about termination to a pregnant friend and you certainly don?t suggest it. The most you do is listen and respond sympathetically if a friend suggests it herself. Which you didn't. Being pro-choice means respecting women's right to make their own minds, it doesn't mean putting your big foot in it.

And when she said that, instead of arguing the rights and wrong of feminism and abortion, the perfect thing to do is to burst into tears and run from the room. She owes you the apology!

It is my personal opinion that a person should have the right to say what does and doesn't grow inside their body.

And I think the flippant remarks about how abortion is the 'easy' option is total bollocks. The people I know who have had abortions did not find them 'easy'.

Your friend suggest a termination at 18+ weeks? She was wrong

You are permitted to have your views, but so is she.

Personally I think you are both wrong

It's such a tough subject and, personally, I think YANBU - but I also don't think you really are pro life because you don't seem to be saying that you think every woman should be forced to make the same decisions as you.

I am very reluctantly pro choice. I do believe in life at the point of conception and I do believe that abortion is killing a baby. However, I also know that other people believe different things and that only the woman who is pregnant actually has the right to make her decision. I think abortion has to remain legal; I just don't like that it is.

I also find the constant mention of rape quite extremist and upsetting. My just turned 6 year old and much loved daughter comes from rape. Nobody wanted me to keep her. I didn't even consider aborting her. So, for me, the assumption that a woman who has been raped must want an abortion is both offensive and potentially dangerous as it could lead to woman feeling that that is the expected thing and that she ought to do it. I wouldn't judge a woman who aborted in those circumstances but, in my experience, I felt judged for keeping my daughter and to me that shows that things have gone too far the other way.

I always thought I supported abortion I really did. Then on Tuesday I had a medical termination. People say its the "easy way". It's not. I was in agony waiting to abort the foetus. I hated every second of it. It was an unplanned pregnancy, and I don't have the financial means to support a child
Naive I guess that I didn't take into account how much the actual procedure would upset me and how emotional I would feel after. Do I wish I could take it back? Yes and no
I feel guilty, sad and angry. I'm angry I never got to talk about my pregnancy, or hear congratulations, or show a scan photo. Feels like some shameful secret that I'm meant to hide away and not talk about
I think I have in a way more respect now for people who choose abortion knowing now how hard it is

The thing is, if you believe that life starts at conception, or a few days later, it's impossible to be pro-choice. All the stuff about women, and choice and all of that, comes second to a baby's (or foetus, or embryo) right to life. No-one would consider that harming a newborn should be allowed because the mother doesn't want a baby. I know there's a huge difference between a newborn and a few weeks old embyro, but if you consider them both alive and having the right to live then there's really no difference and it's wrong to kill either.

Of course, if you don't believe life starts at conception it's all much easier.

OP, you were both being unreasonable. Your friend had no right to suggest that to you, it's your life and your body.

I think it's perfectly possible to be pro life and not be lambasted on Mumsnet but it's the ridiculous, weak arguments that are put up by many pro life posters I have seen that are met with scorn. If you think abortion is wrong and would never have one, well fine, that's up to you but what gives you the right to dictate what other women should do?

Where it gets really disturbing is when women have so little empathy for other women that their feelings, lives, situations are just irrelevant. That the rights of an unborn foetus should trump those of a thinking, feeling women because hey, it's our own fault for opening our legs. The it's ok for rape clause repulses me for that very reason.

Abortion exists for a very good reason and to deny people that would be a return to the dark ages. Lets all welcome back the backstreet abortions because let's face it, contraception fails.

I agree with the argument that many pro lifers don't give a damn what happens post birth. So many children potentially being raised in poverty with mothers who wish they were never born and a father who has long since abdicated his responsibility and fucked off. A real utopia there.

On a personal level, late abortions don't sit comfortably with me at all and I personally would never have one but I would not wish to deny others their right to do so. And that's the difference.

I am pro life.

With no apologies for repetition, please be honest and say you are anti-choice. Your position has nothing to do with choosing life - am I anti-life? Of course not! - and everything to do with controlling other women's bodies.

As someone said upthread, you have no business in another woman's uterus! Why do you even want that?

a baby's right to life

Is it worth more than a woman's right to control her own life and her body?

Do that baby's "rights" extend to a loving, happy, safe and healthy upbringing? If the mother doesn't feel capable of providing that - and, presumably, she doesn't - are you stepping in to support her every step of the way?
Or do you only care that the mother is forced to give birth? Meaning you don't really care about the baby's life at all?

What about other "rights to life", as also mentioned upthread? Should we have our blood, bone marrow, or organs forcibly removed to save another's life? The argument's the same - or even more logical, since recovery from a kidney removal is easier than pregnancy, birth & parenting.

Please do answer these quastions, those of you with strongly anti-choice views. I'm curious!

I am pro choice and I think women shouldn't have to explain there discision to have an abortion.

I think that it is very easy to be young and in denial in the UK and get rid of something without really having to face up to it and I was her and it does haunt me. However, there will always be two sides to freedom and humanity and if, at the time I had been forced to face up to my responsibilities I would have, at best, been sectioned. I do agree that it feels as if it is too easy and in guilty hindsight I agree. But the alternative is so barbaric.my Greek granny told me she had 9 kids and 9 abortions, those being on the big mahogany table she left me and the last one almost killed her which was preferable to her than having another in an abusive marriage. I am also pro choice/life but historically and ow, people face terrible choices. The few who don't want to ruin their figure or lifestyle do not outweigh those who suffer real trauma.

Surely if you are pro-choice Theodora it doesn't matter if someone chooses to terminate because they are in an abusive marriage or they don't want to ruin their figure?

All aboard the swings and roundabouts...Boring and embarrassing to read.

Oh it was you pigletpower who sent me the pm saying simply 'CUNT' - very nice - obviously you are very pro woman

Someone PM'd you 'CUNT'? Why?

Theodora, you're right that it's easier to take a theoretical position when the options exist. Your granny's options were reduced to intolerably frequent pregnancies or life-threatening, illegal abortions. Women's safety relies so heavily on fertility control; we forget that while we have it.

You reminded me of a far less drastic, but still very frightening, time when I suspected I might be pregnant while living in a catholic country. It wasn't very likely - but would have been a disaster for me if true. I was seeing someone, not at all seriously, and had no stability in my life either there or back here. To make sure, I needed a MAP. This involved going to a pharmacy and spinning the assistant a line about terrible period cramps and being unable to contact my doctor who normally prescribed progesterone - all the while dropping five-ton hints. I then had to go back five minutes after the pharmacy closed, when I got a pack of Levonelle. It cost £150. The pharmacist and I both risked a prison sentence.

And that's it. That's how serious it is when you have anti-choice laws. You risk prison, and you have to find a professional who will also risk prison for you.

Someone PM'd you 'CUNT'? Why? wish I knew suspect a slight loony element but no idea really!

pigletpower
To: gordyslovesheep
Subject: Cunt...
Date: Sat 18-May-13 18:03:14
-see above.There's a dear.;)

in all it's glory - just wondering if anyone else got on or if I am special ?

charming...

Fucking hell! What a horrible message.

Garlicgrump - I am pro-life, or anti-abortion. To call me anti-choice implies that I hold the views I do because I hate women and want to take their freedom to choose away. I hold the views I do because I think it is wrong to end the life of an embryo. It would be easier and less emotive to say pro-abortion and anti-abortion!

Is a baby's right to life worth more than a woman's right to control her own life and her body? Yes, I think it is.

With your example of forced blood and organ donation, the difference is that abortion requires a deliberate act to end a life, whereas not donating blood etc is an inaction.