To think that just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I hate feminism?

[TinkerSailerSoldierSpy]

Friend and I were having a discussion, I'm 18 weeks pregnant, and it was a bit of an inconvenient surprise, considering I've started a new job just 2 months ago.I mentioned that it wasn't going to look good, me taking maternity leave after not even being there for a year, and she suggested perhaps considering there was no dad on the scene and my new job, I should terminate. I felt a bit uncomfortable but told her that I could never do that as I'm pro life and view it as killing a child. She then proceeded to stare at me like I had an extra head and ask me why in a shocked voice. I explained my reasons and views and we got into an arguement about it, the usual stuff, what about in cases of rape and if the woman's not financially able to support the child, to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle? And she stormed out the house shouting that I was misogynistic and women have the right to their own bodies. Let me be clear, I certainly would never stop anyone from making their decision about an abortion, I just can't seem to get over the idea of it, it repulses me. But I wouldn't judge a woman who got one. I understand the other viewpoint but I can't agree with it myself, and in all other respects I would say i was very liberal about womans rights. When I mentioned it to other friend she said it was my views but they were quite outdated and misogynistic. Are they? I need advice, should I apologize to friend A?

[SoftSheen]

YANBU and have been judged rather harshly.

I suspect that your views are somewhat similar to mine, namely that whilst I respect other women's right to choice, I don't think I could ever have an abortion myself, except perhaps in the most extreme of situations such as rape or a baby with a medical condition that was not compatible with life.

I wouldn't judge another woman who had a termination for any reason. In all honesty, I think I would be judgmental about a woman who had multiple terminations and appeared to use abortion as a means of contraception, since this implies a disrespect for life. Notably however, I have never come across such a woman.

Your friend was being unreasonable because she introduced the subject of abortion to a pregnant woman who had already made clear her intention to keep her baby, despite difficult circumstances. She could only have expected an emotional reaction to this and should have shown a little more sensitivity. It would have been far kinder of her to provide a little reassurance that many women have babies in situations similar to yours, and perhaps to offer to help out in any way that she can.

Good luck with your pregnancy and I hope you enjoy your lovely baby.

[Remotecontrolduck]

Yes, we should terminate them because all children have the right to be brought up by parents who want them and look after them.

Would it be better for you if children were brought into awful, abuse filled, poverty sticken unsuitable homes for example?

[VisualiseAHorse]

shes should have the baby and either raise it or go for adoption. are you fucking kidding me?

[BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky]

No having an abortion is not easy,especially when the have judgement poured on them,like hot oil. Adoption is a choice. Being a parent is a choice. Abortion is a choice. None are easy but that's the only options a woman has when she is pregnant.

[BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky]

She can terminate if she wants. There's no should about it.

[Ashoething]

Actually there are women who do find abortion easy-again it has been discussed on here ad infinitum. I am talking about "easy" emotionally obviously in that they felt it was the right choice for then and have had no regrets over it.

[Sparhawk]

People like barebranches don't care what happens to a child after it's born, because denying women the right to control their bodies is much more important then making sure children aren't brought into this world to rot in the care system or to suffer being looked after by someone incapable of caring for them.

You can't claim to care about children if you want to use them to punish women for daring to have sex when they don't intend to have a child.

[gordyslovesheep]

Clouds I don't mind if people are pro-life as it has no impact on my - I mind if them being pro-life means they WANT to have an impact on me by limiting my legal choices or those of other women.

Having a personal view of termination is an absolute right and not something anyone here would deny you or other posters :)

[seeker]

First. I don't believe the scenario outlined "she stormed out shouting that I was misogynistic" Really??
But that aside.

It is impossible to be a feminist and to simultaneously believe that women do not have an absolute right to control what happens to their bodies.

I have struggled with this one all my life, but it is true. You have a right to decide what you do with your body- you have a right to choose for yourself. But you do not have the right to choose on behalf of other women.

[VisualiseAHorse]

You still haven't answered out Q's branches.

Do you have children?
Do you have sex?
Have you had an abortion?

Abortion may not be easy, but it a lot of cases, it will be a lot easier than bringing a child into the world that was never wanted.

[gordyslovesheep]

me not my!

[StuntGirl]

"I suspect that your views are somewhat similar to mine...I wouldn't judge another woman who had a termination for any reason."

The OP has repeatedly judged women who have abortions. Your views are not the same.

[SchroSawMargeryDaw]

I'm personally not comfortable with abortion, definitely not for myself anyway (had one at 13 and it still haunts me). Other reasons for my discomfort around the subject, I think are because I don't know enough about what can actually be felt, what level of consciousness there is.

There are situations though where it is probably for the best and I would never judge anyone for having one, if we tried to make it stricter then people who really did need it would probably find it much harder to obtain one and that wouldn't be right and would lead to all sorts of problems.

Apart from one news story I seen about a woman aborting on her own at term and then hiding the body. I think I am more uncomfortable with that though as there is no proof it wasn't killed after it was born and how and that terrifies me (which is a bit ironic really because then I think what the difference would be had it been in-utero, this is why my views on this are conflicted).

No matter what though, I would never try and change someones decision about their own body and I would also never consider trying to convince someone to have one even if I had no problems with it.

I am currently pg though and my view always seems different when actually pregnant!

Also - barebranches You are coming across as a loon on this thread, your opinions are your opinions and whilst you state that they are valid, so are everyone elses.

[SauceForTheGander]

If you don't want to have an abortion don't have one. But you can't tell other women they shouldn't. By all means be anti abortion but accept you cannot dictate to others.

[pinkyredrose]

barebranches would still like to know how many children you have and whether you're celibate.

[sandberry]

Even if you ascribe personhood to an embryo from conception, nobody has the right to use another's body to live. If they did we should all be legally compelled to donate bone marrow, blood and a kidney to others who need them. Women have the right not to use their bodies to support another 'person'

[SchroSawMargeryDaw]

"If you don't want to have an abortion don't have one. But you can't tell other women they shouldn't. By all means be anti abortion but accept you cannot dictate to others."

^^ That, basically.

[Remotecontrolduck]

It constantly amazes me how some of the more extreme 'pro life' people like barebranches don't seem to give a rats arse about the child AFTER it is born.

Because terminating at an early stage is obviously so much worse than a mother who doesn't want their baby, a baby born into awful, dysfunctional circumstances, a baby left to struggle in the care system. Have you not seen the stats on how many care leavers have qualifications? Are in prison?

What about the rights of the actual born children? Or do they not matter?

I have never met anyone who had repeat abortions because they were 'too lazy' to use contraception.

[VisualiseAHorse]

Ooo, I like your thinking sandberry.

[WorraLiberty]

Bloody hell barebranches talk about back pedaling....

if u cant care for a child dont have sex... its not hard!!!!

When asked if sex is reserved for those who want a child...

yes. thats right.
dont do the deed unless u are up for the consequences

And now....

i didnt mean people to not have sex. i meant that some women have sex then are shocked when they get preg...eh thats what sex is for....!!

So basically you are saying that sex is only for the financially well off and poor people should abstain completely?

[sandberry]

as for adoption as an alternative to abortion. Adoption potentially causes emotional harm to two people (the mother who makes an adoption plan and the adoptee) as well as presenting more risk to the physical health of the mother than an early termination.

There is a great chapter in Kathryn Joyce's new book about the Christian adoption movement about the coercion of young pregnant women this mindset leads to

[Mia4]

She is BU for suggest you terminate, no one should ever suggest anyone does anything with their bodies like that is they don't want to. Likewise, if you are prolife then you are pro telling other women what they should do with theirs therefore you too are unreasonable.

If however you are believe that other women should be able to abort if their choice, but privately just dislike the idea and would never do yourself then you are not prolife-you are prochoice because you believe in the right to choose, you just don't like one of the options.

[AmandaPayneNeedsANap]

I am pro-choice. Vehemently. I am also a feminist.

Could I choose an abortion for myself? Almost certainly not.

The personal choices I would make have no impact on my utter conviction that, as a political opinion, safe legal abortion must be available to safeguard the freedom of women.

So I do struggle with the idea of a pro-life (or forced birth, to put a similarly strong anti-spin on the position as their preferred language) feminist.

[garlicgrump]

sandberry, thank you for putting across a point I've often found hard to articulate!

Recovering from a forced kidney donation would actually be easier than giving birth and raising a child so, yeah, let's think about the rights of people who need kidneys - make organ donation compulsory (by the same logic!)

[Featherbag]

At least get your terminology right. You are either pro-choice (this includes your right to choose to not terminate) or you are pro-forced-birth. I am currently pregnant, by choice. When I met my now DH, I explained early in the relationship that if I were to accidentally become pregnant I would not terminate, as personally I don't feel it's something that I could ever do. I gave him the choice (we were teenagers) of not continuing a sexual relationship, instead we were just very careful with contraception for the next 11 years.

My best friend had a brief relationship with someone who was never going to be her 'forever' partner and became pregnant. She terminated without hesitation and I supported her through it with zero judgement, as it was her personal choice to make.