To think that just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I hate feminism?

[TinkerSailerSoldierSpy]

Friend and I were having a discussion, I'm 18 weeks pregnant, and it was a bit of an inconvenient surprise, considering I've started a new job just 2 months ago.I mentioned that it wasn't going to look good, me taking maternity leave after not even being there for a year, and she suggested perhaps considering there was no dad on the scene and my new job, I should terminate. I felt a bit uncomfortable but told her that I could never do that as I'm pro life and view it as killing a child. She then proceeded to stare at me like I had an extra head and ask me why in a shocked voice. I explained my reasons and views and we got into an arguement about it, the usual stuff, what about in cases of rape and if the woman's not financially able to support the child, to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle? And she stormed out the house shouting that I was misogynistic and women have the right to their own bodies. Let me be clear, I certainly would never stop anyone from making their decision about an abortion, I just can't seem to get over the idea of it, it repulses me. But I wouldn't judge a woman who got one. I understand the other viewpoint but I can't agree with it myself, and in all other respects I would say i was very liberal about womans rights. When I mentioned it to other friend she said it was my views but they were quite outdated and misogynistic. Are they? I need advice, should I apologize to friend A?

[specialsubject]

abortion is not child-killing, any more than contraception or miscarriage is.

I am pro-choice. You are pregnant and you have the choice to continue or not. As you should.

just extend that to every other woman who is pregnant. Whatever her reason.

that said, I don't really think it is ever appropriate to suggest that a pregnant woman should terminate.

[StealthOfficialCrispTester]

If you can't care for a baby don't have sex? Really
So you only ever have sex with the plan of getting pregnant? You must have a large family or very little sex

[FJL203]

Your view doesn't mean you hate feminism, of course it doesn't sweetie.

It means that you hate women, you hate their right to autonomy over their own bodies and all that the female gender has fought for for so long. It means that you're of the opinion that some women are worthy and deserving of having a say over her body and that there are others who just can't be arsed to be a mother and should be forced to bear a child she doesn't want.

I'm sure you're not anti-feminism. I'm sure you are happy to accept parts of it - like maternity pay and keeping the job open you started 2 months ago.

But that's not enough, is it?

[MinnieBar]

YABVU to think women have abortions because they 'can't be arsed' to be parents. Having an abortion is by no means an easy option.

And yes, believing that women should have ultimate control over what happens to their own bodies is a fundamental tenet of feminism.

[FreddieMisaGREATshag]

You lost the argument at the "can't be arsed to be a mother".

YABVVU

[Birdsgottafly]

It was a conversation that shouldn't have been started.

What right did she have to suggest that you should consider abortion? None and especially "because there isn't a dad on the scene".

Your reasoning of why women have abortions is incorrect and offencive.

The hardest decision to ever have to make to to abort a baby with your husband, which is, in effect, killing your exsisting children's sibling. I have been in that situation, it isn't a senario often talked about, the rape one is more common.

Because i "could be arsed to mother" i terminated. The comments on this thread shows how little thought has gone into the plight of women (and couples), whose contraception has not worked.

[WorraLiberty]

I feel like I've just wandered into Downton Abbey....

[EllaFitzgerald]

I think you and your friend were both being unreasonable actually. You equating a rape victim's choice to terminate a pregnancy to someone 'having a party life style' is awful. I can't even begin to imagine what someone in that position must have to go through and attitudes like that must be gut wrenching to have to deal with. However, if you feel that you personally would be unable to go through with a termination, you're quite entitled to feel that way and your friend should respect that, even if she doesn't understand it.

I may be misunderstanding the point of feminism completely, but to my mind, it's having the right to choose what's best for you, be it termination or having a child. Perhaps I'm over simplifying it though.

[barebranches]

no thank you
i have strong views on this... and my opinion is valid.

[StealthOfficialCrispTester]

barebranches, I find your views "discusting"

[RedToothBrush]

Let me be clear, I certainly would never stop anyone from making their decision about an abortion, I just can't seem to get over the idea of it, it repulses me. But I wouldn't judge a woman who got one.

Let me just repeat what you said:

'I would never stop someone from having an abortion and I would never judge a woman for doing something that I expressly say very openly "repulses me"'.

Read that back.

I don't think that people who are pro-choice particularly like the actual process and its purpose in either. But to openly say it 'repulses' you, IS judgemental and you are being mightily hypocritical and contradictory with your own statement.

Who is to say that the person you are speaking to, hasn't had an abortion you don't know about or has supported someone close to them through an abortion and they know the reasons behind that decision or how difficult they found that decision. Your views about why women do have abortions or under what circumstances are 'acceptable' to have one are entirely judgmental.

If you really don't agree with abortion then fine; but don't turn round and say you aren't being judgmental especially if you come out with emotive language like that in a debate on the subject.

If you genuinely don't judge women for having abortions and don't want to stop other women from having them even though you disagree with it - then frankly keep your big trap shut, bite your tongue and keep your opinions to yourself!

Oh and apologise to your friend.

[barebranches]

im not a loony
i just feel stongly on this area. ill leave u all to have the same opinions. clearly alternate views are not allowed on mumsnet.

[differentnameforthis]

to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle?

So, if a woman who was raped had a termination, it was because she wanted to continue her "party lifestyle." Do you see what you did there op?

[VisualiseAHorse]

I really don't think it is barebranches. You are saying that you personally only ever have sex in order to conceive?

And what about the women whose contraception failed them? They were being responsible.

[Sparhawk]

Your opinions would be perfectly valid..... in the 1900's.

[WorraLiberty]

I think having a tiny cluster of cells removed because you don't want to be a parent is a very sensible thing to do.

Using emotive language like 'killing babies' is ridiculous as it conjours up and image of a baby actually being killed.

Though I guess that was the kind of hysteria you were trying to whip up with your post.

[Sunnywithshowers]

can't be arsed to be a mother

OP, it's clear to me now that you have no bloody idea why a woman might not choose to carry a pregnancy to term, other than rape.

Friends of mine who have had abortions have done so after careful consideration.

[StealthOfficialCrispTester]

that said I agree the OP's friend was out of order to bring up abortion unless she got any idea the OP wanted to discuss something like that. If someone tells you they're pg, then unless they indicate they want your support to discuss the options, your response should be "congratulations"

[Birdsgottafly]

Just to add, caring for a baby is easy, meeting a child's physical and emotional needs, throught your life (if doesn't end at 18) is the tough bit. Adoption isn't the answer, before anyone comes up with that one, because giving up your new baby, does tend to emotionally damage the children that you already have.

[BabyMakesTheBoobiesGoLeaky]

Abortion is not for me but who the hell am I to tell any other woman what to do. Sex isn't some huge crime that has consequences if 'caught'.

[gordyslovesheep]

alternative views are fine barebranches but try not to foam so much at the mouth when you scream share them.

I respect people views when they are well presented

[ComposHat]

Saying 'I could personally never have an abortion, but support the right of others to chose what to do with their own bodies' is absolutely fine and in my view compatible with feminism.

I can't help but think that you were making moral judgements about people who had abortions - 'continue their party lifestyles' smacks of a moral judgement and reeks of misogyny.

Also, don't hide behind 'pro-life' you are anti-abortion.