Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think that just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I hate feminism?

812 replies

TinkerSailerSoldierSpy · 18/05/2013 12:38

Friend and I were having a discussion, I'm 18 weeks pregnant, and it was a bit of an inconvenient surprise, considering I've started a new job just 2 months ago.I mentioned that it wasn't going to look good, me taking maternity leave after not even being there for a year, and she suggested perhaps considering there was no dad on the scene and my new job, I should terminate. I felt a bit uncomfortable but told her that I could never do that as I'm pro life and view it as killing a child. She then proceeded to stare at me like I had an extra head and ask me why in a shocked voice. I explained my reasons and views and we got into an arguement about it, the usual stuff, what about in cases of rape and if the woman's not financially able to support the child, to which I countered but is it right for a woman to get an abortion just because she wants to continue a party lifestyle? And she stormed out the house shouting that I was misogynistic and women have the right to their own bodies. Let me be clear, I certainly would never stop anyone from making their decision about an abortion, I just can't seem to get over the idea of it, it repulses me. But I wouldn't judge a woman who got one. I understand the other viewpoint but I can't agree with it myself, and in all other respects I would say i was very liberal about womans rights. When I mentioned it to other friend she said it was my views but they were quite outdated and misogynistic. Are they? I need advice, should I apologize to friend A?

OP posts:
edam · 18/05/2013 22:22

A 12 week old foetus isn't a human being. It's a potential human being - 8cm long and 14g. It does not and cannot have an independent existence and does not and cannot have more 'rights' than its mother.

Bogeyface · 18/05/2013 22:24

Pro-Life is the most misogynistic campaign ever. You only have to look at the protesters, a couple of young women with their own children in buggies and a plethora of elderly women and middle aged men.

Men have NO RIGHT in the abortion argument, none at all. I dont care that it is an unpopular view but thats how I feel. It sickens me when I see footage of a middle aged man spouting forth on the rights of the child, etc. They day men can have babies is the day they get a say in what we do with our bodies, not a second sooner.

Bogeyface · 18/05/2013 22:25

sorry that should be "Men have NO RIGHT to be involved in the abortion argument"

Blistory · 18/05/2013 22:25

Women are either legally entitled to terminate a pregnancy or they are not. Doesn't matter why they want one or when they want one or how many they have. Women either have autonomy over their bodies or they don't.

It took me a long time to reconcile my feelings of horror over the possibility of late terminations with my views above but I firmly believe that 'as early as possible, as late as necessary' is the only way to ensure that we respect the rights of all women over their bodies. Either abortion is an acceptable option or it isn't.

I would prefer that no woman ever had to choose to terminate a pregnancy but we don't live in a perfect world.

girliefriend · 18/05/2013 22:27

When I was at university one of my housemates had 4 abortions in 3 years. This was very much because she in her own words was 'rubbish with contraception.' I found this difficult and I am very pro choice.

When I found myself pregnant and on my own quite a few people suggested it would be better if I had a termination Shock not sure who it would be better for...... Hmm

Callycat · 18/05/2013 22:30

I am also appalled at the way the pro-life lobby wash their hands of any sense of societal responsibility

Agreed. But it illustrates that an anti-abortion stance is rarely about concern for the potential offspring. It's about keeping women in their place. It's much easier to sit in your armchair and squeal about nasty women murdering babies than it is to get of your arse and help raise the unwanted children who you insist should be born.

Callycat · 18/05/2013 22:30

"Off", even. Gah.

hopkinette · 18/05/2013 22:31

That there exists this myth of the casual abortion seeker makes me grimace

Fair point. However, I also think it's problematic that women should be expected to agonise endlessly over the decision, because to me that seems to perpetuate the idea that all women actually do want to have children. I don't want to be pregnant and I don't want to be a parent. I know this. I have an IUD but if it failed I would seek a termination, and I don't anticipate that there'd be any hand-wringing involved. It makes me uneasy that we are expected to qualify the belief that women should be allowed to have abortions with the condition that they feel appropriately sad about it.

Bogeyface · 18/05/2013 22:31

I would prefer that no woman ever had to choose to terminate a pregnancy

I am sure most of us would agree with this, pro life or pro choice. Because it would mean that there were no abusive relationships, more support, more acceptance, less judgement and 100% reliable contraception.

But there isnt :(

twofingerstoGideon · 18/05/2013 22:33

MediumOrchid can't you see that I find it as insulting to be called anti choice as you do to be called anti life? Much better to stick to pro/anti abortion!

The phrase 'pro-abortion obviously suits your rhetoric, but it's an inaccurate way of describing pro-choicers.

I strongly object to being called 'pro-abortion' because it suggests that I would actively advocate for abortion in all circumstances when the point of being pro-choice is that you believe in a woman's right to autonomy over her own body (ie. you take a stance of non-interference, unlike most anti-abortionists/anti-choicers I've come across.)

thegreylady · 18/05/2013 22:34

I know this isn't a popular viewpoint but if someone becomes pregnant through carelessness,doesn't bother with a morning after pill and then doesn't bother until she is over 12 weeks pregnant; I don't see why a baby can't be adopted by someone desperate to have a baby. There will always be cases to argue. No baby is a 'parasite' and no mother merely a 'host'.
Society can accommodate all pov and help should always be available. I just don't think abortion should be regarded as back up contraception which is,sadly, the attitude of many .

Bogeyface · 18/05/2013 22:34

Hopkinette do you mind if I ask if you have ever had a termination?

I was very black and white about it, until it happened to me and then I realised that it really wasnt as simple as "having something removed". I did feel a huge sense of responsibility, and I wanted to be sure that it was the right decision.

rainbowbrite1980 · 18/05/2013 22:34

YANBU - I am also pro-life, and for me it is not the woman's choice to make, to end another person's life. However, I think you could have been more sensitive in the way you expressed the viewpoint. I do know people who have had terminations because the pregnancy wasn't convenient, but I don't think it was an easy experience for them. And it's worth considering that your friend might have had experiences you don't know about, hence her reaction.

Blistory · 18/05/2013 22:35

Because you cannot force a woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy. It's not humane.

MinnieBar · 18/05/2013 22:36

girliefriend I don't think it's a massive leap to assume that your university friend had more, deep-seated issues going on than just 'being crap with contraception'.

hopkinette · 18/05/2013 22:38

Bogey yes I have. The instant I knew I was pregnant I knew I wasn't going through with it. I would have killed myself if I'd not been able to terminate.

MinnieBar · 18/05/2013 22:39

Also, being pregnant has a huge impact on the health of the woman. SGM wrote/linked to a blog post about all the many long- and short-term issues that pregnancy can and does have. And no one has the right to force a woman to continue with a pregnancy, even if it's going to end in a 'good' outcome of adoption.

Bogeyface · 18/05/2013 22:40

grey But it isnt the attitude of "many". It is the attitude of some, yes and that is unfortunate, but rare.

"Just have them adopted" oh, if only it were that simple. I had my eldest when I was 17, I was very anti abortion then and decided I would "just" have him adopted. Nice easy choice. I was that naive. I cant believe now, looking back, that I thought it would be that easy!

It is impossible to describe sitting in a hospital room with my parents, my mother telling me it was for the best and my father fighting back tears that he might never see his newborn grandson again, deciding whether to walk out without him.

Your suggestion is terrifyingly close to the forced adoptions that happened to many many women in the last century. Being sent away, having the baby and then having it taken away because you wanted an abortion and couldnt have one, or take home the baby you know love but are in position to take proper care of, until it is taken into care. You really think that that is an acceptable thing to suggest?! I am appalled, I really am.

ActiveTopics · 18/05/2013 22:42

yabu

CoalDustWoman · 18/05/2013 22:43

hopkinette, I totally agree and didn't expand as I should. I don't care why a woman wants an abortion, providing it is her decision. And i would like her to have support if she needs it. And for her not to be berated if she's matter of fact about it.

SolidGoldBrass · 18/05/2013 22:47

When I was pregnant, more than one person suggested I think about terminating. I decided not to do so, and have a lovely DS. But that was my choice. Something I formerly used to say to all the bucketheads insisting that 'contraceptive failure' was some sort of moral failing and that promiscuous women shouldn't be allowed abortions was: maybe the fact that I never had an abortion was because I wasn't fertile - after all, you don't know how fertile you actually are unless/until you start trying.

I have never had an abortion and can safely say I never will (I can safely say that now because I am nearly 50 and menopausal so will never concieve again). But I still support the right of every woman to choose for herself whether or not to continue a pregnancy. As early as possible, as late as necessary.

BasilBabyEater · 18/05/2013 22:49

You're not pro-life, you're pro-forced-birth.

Own it.

Those of you who don't believe women should have the right to have legal, safe abortions, are arguing for forcing women to go through with pregnancies and birthing experiences against their will.

How incredibly cruel and inhumane.

None of you would force a man to go through the things women have to go through for during pregnancy and birth for the sake of another human being's welfare and life. Men have the right to put themselves and their interests first, but women don't - because women are lesser beings than men, not quite as fully human as them.

That's why being in favour of forcing women to give birth against their will, is incompatible with being a feminist. If you believe that women should be denied safe, legal abortions under certain circumstances, then you believe women's lives are simply not worth as much as men's. Men can't even be forced to give blood against their will in order to save another human being's life, much less use of their kidney or heart or any other organ. But a woman can be forced to risk her own life and lend crucial parts of her body for someone else's benefit when she really doesn't want to? And that's feminism? Funny sort of feminism IMO.

SolidGoldBrass · 18/05/2013 22:51

Also: I was adopted as a baby. I was born three years before abortion became legal in the UK. I suspect that I was a forced adoption, and while I believe that continuing a pregnancy and having the baby adopted is a valid choice (and one I considered when I was PG), I am just as glad that it's now feasible for a woman to raise a child without a male partner as I am glad that women can (mostly) choose abortion if that's the option that works best for them.

neunundneunzigluftballons · 18/05/2013 23:18

If feminism means you have to support fullterm abortions I would rather be a mysoginist any day of the week. I do not equate abortion and feminism because many feminists I know would not consider abortion themselves but would never judge another woman for having one. What is stopping them I cannot say for sure more than likely personal cultural and for them their personal moral considerations. You do not have to be willing to consider having an abortion yourself to be a feminist.Personally I sit in the grey areas for abortion they are appropriate in some situations and inappropriate in other situations like late pregnancy.

garlicgrump · 18/05/2013 23:24

Grey, you argue against yourself when you say "if someone becomes ... over 12 weeks pregnant; I don't see why a baby can't be adopted by someone desperate to have a baby. There will always be cases to argue. No baby is a 'parasite' and no mother merely a 'host'."

In that scenario, you have designated the woman as a 'host' or incubator for a child which another parent will rear (or an institution.)

I wonder what you thought of Bogey's story? I was about to evoke it theoretically, Bogey, I'm so very sorry you went through it for real.