to think that men should not be referred to as 'Asian' when they are not in fact Asian

[PatPig]

Examples (disturbing content warning):

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/14/oxford-child-sex-ring-police-investigation
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324621/Girl-12-branded-hairpin-raped-sold-sex-600-hour.html

According to this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-22164676

The leaders of the gang are:

'thought to originate from Eritrea, in East Africa, but he grew up in his parents' house on the Cowley Road.'

Since when was Eritrea in Asia?

The Telegraph goes with:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10057543/Asian-grooming-gang-convicted-of-appalling-acts-of-depravity-on-children.html

"Asian grooming gang convicted of appalling acts of depravity on children"

yet in the article concedes:

"Seven men of Asian or North African origin were found guilty of grooming"

It seems like inaccurate and prejudicial language to me, especially when Asia contains 2/3 of the population of the world yet 'Asians' are obviously an ethnic minority in the UK.

I think the reason they are being labelled Muslim is maybe they are!

They are not allowed girlfriends/relationships before marriage and that is why this problems exists. Its their restrictive life that makes them like this. Their mothers, sisters, daughters are not allowed out on their own, they have to cover up and most definitely do not have outside relationships.

The phrase I'm looking for is 'kept under lock and key.'

Ogg
You said Asian girls not muslim and not Pakistani. The point I was making was that these are sweeping terms that cover huge numbers of people.

Can I also point out that not all parts of the muslim community like all other parts of the muslim community, its very diverse. Pakistani Sunni muslims may not share much in common with muslims from North Africa or possibly Iranian Shia.

Melika you are missing the fact that this was a business - they where selling sex with children - I think clouding the issue with some idea of repressed sexuality making them unable to have normal sex - trust me, Asian men can and do have sex outside of marriage and it's ignored!

These girls where abused for profit - there is money in trafficking - it's easier and more profitable than drugs (which is where many of these gangs stem from - drug trafficking from Afghanistan and Pakistan .

Our society sadly has a rich pool of vulnerable young people to pick from

These men where not driven by a need for illicit sex - they where driven by money

Ffs melika yes Im really truly under lock and key. Shock horror if my dh finds me sneaking out the front door without his permission.

Yes marriages outside of marriage are not allowed, but did you do everything your parents told you to do growing up? Women roam freely here and all over the muslim world, maybe not Afghanistan. God knows which wierdos you have been mixing with but stop talking about the muslim/pakistani community like you're an expert.

melika
Can I also point out that amongst my DH's friends who are North African immigrants. Not only are the women allowed out on their own , they drive, have university degrees and professional jobs. I see how hard they are pushing their daughters to get a good education and go to university.

In DH's home country his neices go to university by bus on their own. They are not under lock and key at all. Stop treating 1.8bn people as a homogeneous group.

The only reason the white girls are the ones that are targeted is because they are the vunerable ones that are easy to get at for all the reasons she has given

So why not a string of similar cases involving gangs of white men over similar number of years?? Ok there have been JS etc, celebrities taking advantage of their position, but not gangs of white men.

Either these men, despite being brought up in Britain, thought they could get away with it indefinitely or there are just a lot of Asian, muslim gangs whatever you call them targeting white girls so this should be flagged up.

Are you 'allowed' a computer Hoppin?

It's nothing to do with a restrictive life. The truth is, many young Muslim men (not saying all) think white women are scum. Reading what has been happening just sickens me and I couldn't give a shiny shite about the wording in the headlines. We need to be more concerned about putting a stop to this abuse.

I'm telling I have suffered in my younger days, it's an attitude. How would you like a man running after you into staff area, locking the door, intending to assault me. I was terrified, I know he was Muslim because the police told me his name. And the other incident, the same.

The area I am talking about is definitely Muslim. I know.

No its hidden buzz, incase he discovers my mn name and realises I speak to those 'orrible feminist types'.

Agh these shackles are really starting to dig. Its ok he will be home soon..

(Btw typo in other post, meant relationships obv)

Spingdiva

Here's an example of gangs of white men over a similar number of years
www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/Catalogue-missed-opportunities-Torbay-child/story-18267587-detail/story.html#axzz2TNQGkTJU

I grew up in the inner city, worked there, not an expert but can tell religion by names generally, unless you know better.

Springdiva
What about this one
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22306588

North Wales Care home abuse.

melika
I understand you had a bad experience at the hands of some very unplesent men but you can't then say that all Muslims are the same.

There has been an awful abuse scandal in the Catholic Church does that mean that all Catholic men (e.g. my Dad and DB) are abusers, potential abusers or people who turned a blind eye to abuse. Is there something intrinsic about Catholism that leads men to believe abuse is acceptable?

Melika sorry to hear what you endured, really. Its awful to be treated differently because of your race, gender, ethnicity or whatever else, I have been hassled for being asian by white men myself but would never say they are all the same. I hope you reported him/them. But i do seriously think to stereotype a whole community or ethnicity like you are doing is wrong.

Melika - that is one of the most amateur and crazy accounts of psychological analysis that I have ever read here - the reason they do it is bcos they are either evil or are psychopaths (another amateur analysis ). There are plenty of muslims who live under the "no relationships before marriage" lifestyle but this does not mean that they crack under the pressure and go around violently attacking women. How dated are your views? (you gave your free speech I give you mine!). It is not a problem with muslim men, but men who are evil/psychopathic whatever their religion or skin colour or country of origin. e.g. even today another report (DailyMail - sorry DM haters, from google search!) a Russian gang caught prosituting women from Eastern Europe in Chelsea.

This latest news story from DM webiste: "Women were 'recruited' from Eastern Europe and promised jobs in the leisure industry working in posts such as receptionists at hotels. But once in the UK they were forced to work as prostitutes and told their families would be harmed if they refused".

Am not denying that there are many areas of the UK with such problems, and ones where the gang members are "asian"/"muslim" in the majority - but note the headline here by DM:

"Police smash sex ring run from Chelsea flats that made prostitute gang up to £20,000 a day"

• note the headline sayd gang - not Russian gang???

oops sayd= says

Melika - have since read your more recent post - very sorry you had a bad experience - but like others have said just bcos you had to deal with awful muslim men does not mean they all are like that, which your posts seem to imply.

Whatever. We all know what these gangs are,they are gangs of mainly Pakistani, almost exclusively Muslim scumbags, who target vulnerable white girls. Because they view these kids as irrelevant,less than human and diposable. They have got away with it for many,many years because post Lawrence, the Police are terrified of being labelled racist.

Thats it. And if anyone thinks there has been no racial element in these crimes, they need, quite frankly, to pull their heads out of their arses.

In this day and age, we are asked to stick our ethnicity on every form or questionnaire we fill in.

It is a demographic marker.

There have been some quite hard hitting articles in the press this week, about several sectors of society. I'm amazed MN hasn't picked up on them, maybe they have but I rarely pop over to the news section.

A day or two before this case was reported, a breakdown of crime was issued by the Department of Statistics. 1 in 5 crimes are committed by foreign nationals/immigrants, define them as you will.

Someone will point out that means 4 in 5 crimes are committed by home grown criminals. True. Except none of it is reflective of the ethnic break down of Britain today. Across country, the statistical breakdown of the Uk population is 98% white British. Therefore 20% of the crime is committed by 2% of the population source.

This is why people are getting upset. Maybe the papers shouldn't point out the obvious. Maybe people can read the papers and crime reports for them selves and make an educated deduction who is committing crime and what sort of crime.

Some crime is specific to nationalities, I'd find it very difficult to see a news report about cockle pickers that didn't point to Chinese Triad gangs. Also been several reports about Travellers running slave labour gangs, having kidnapped vulnerable men with LDs.

I'd like to stick my neck right out and make a factual remark about the original news stories concerning these dreadful men and the abuse these girls suffered, but the pitchforks would be out and the bonfire lit and I'd be burned at the stake. So I'll sit back not saying what everyone else is thinking but not daring to spit out and say. But Peter Mandelson hit the nail on the head when he made his disclosure regarding Labour party policies to immigration.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm

Nailed it spot on.

I'm not racist but...

O couldn't give a crap what religion these vile pigs were.

Who cares about them? What does concern me is the total lack of investigation and care these vulnerable girls were under.

What is in care or looked after? Clearly its neither. Who was acting in loco parentis for these girls? Why were these children roaming the streets at night?

Were these men not investigated because they ARE Muslims?

These are questions we need to ask. Couldn't give a crap about the semantics of the post.

I'm not racist but...

I'd really much rather my daughters weren't raped, tortured and sold into sexual slavery by a distinct societal grouping who regard their worth as less than zero.

What has been brought up in the JS and surrounding cases is the culture of the BBC which is what most of these men had in common.

If it's reasonable to talk about the culture at the BBC in these cases and how that is responsible or influenced it I don't see why it is irresponsible to discuss what these men had culturally in common (third world background, Islam) and wonder what influence this had on the case.

I think the biggest thing the two cases have in common is that both groups got away with it for so long because they were members of a favoured group. One lot because they were rich, famous TV presenters or producers, the others because they are a member of a minority.

Don't forget that it was only a few years ago where people who voiced concerns about this sort of thing were branded racist liars.

Just as the BBC are being investigated for ignoring abuse because their abusers were valuable commodities I think that the people surrounding this case, the police, social workers should be investigated to see if they didn't act because they were turning a blind eye due to the race of the people involved.

One of the girls testified that she repeatedly tried to blow the whistle on this and was ignored and told to shut up because what she was saying was 'inappropriate'.

I have to say that I have not seen anyone on this thread, or the other thread on the same subject that I have posted on, saying that all muslims are the same.

However, these men not only chose their victims from vulnerable children outwith their own community/background/racial/ethnic origin - they targeted a specific subsection of girls within that group.

I do not have the figures to hand, but I am sure that there are children from all ethnicities who are in care/are vulnerable because of their family circumstances - but it was only white girls who were targeted by this group - does that not make it racially motivated, in a large part, if not in total?