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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it ok to leave a 4 year old at home while you do the school run? AIBU?!

147 replies

3MonthMaid · 14/05/2013 08:20

Ok so I don't want to sound judgey, but I am genuinely concerned about this. My neighbour has started leaving her 4 year old DD at home in the flat whilst she collects her older son from school.

We live very close to school, but as its a huge school it can easily take half an hour at times. The classes are late coming out, the teacher wants a word etc etc.

It should be added that the little girl in question is pretty feisty. I've seen her climb up the fridge, run herself baths, open the front door etc.

I'm just concerned- on the other hand I'm wondering if its me being too over cautious? My DD is a few years older and I wouldn't do it...

OP posts:
nokidshere · 14/05/2013 10:54

Whilst I am in the "no never" brigade its worth pointing out that there is no legal age at which you can or cannot leave your child home alone.

If the child was to be hurt whilst left alone then the parent would almost certainly be prosecuted for neglect, but if the child remains safe then nothing would be done apart from someone maybe pointing out the obvious dangers to a seemigly oblivious parent.

If you have a safeguarding issue with any child you need to call SS - not much point reporting it to the school. "I heard it from so and so who got it from so and so" is far less effective than you ringing with a genuine complaint.

Fakebook · 14/05/2013 10:56

Wth? Why can't she take a 4 year old with her to the school? Confused yanbu.

imaginethat · 14/05/2013 10:59

I think this is a lot more common than we may imagine, and that children from very young ages are left day and/or night by parents who are naive about the risks or who are simply not coping.

You can understand the temptation to leave a baby who is likely to stay asleep till you return, or a pre schooler engrossed in a movie. How nice to run errands without fussing about car seats or dealing with whining. Until the unthinkable happens. Which it can, and does

valiumredhead · 14/05/2013 11:00

You can't keep putting your child at risk though nokid if this is what's happening.

There is ever reason to report it to the school, the school are duty bound to report it. It's up to the OP wether she trusts the school to keep her name out of it or not.

everlong · 14/05/2013 11:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RooneyMara · 14/05/2013 11:10

What Melissa said actually.

valiumredhead · 14/05/2013 11:12

Sorry would - 2 Valiums confusion! Grin

valiumredhead · 14/05/2013 11:12

The school will not be able to say or do anything either. They will say if you are concerned then to call SS yourself

Simply not true.

Loa · 14/05/2013 11:12

Are you assuming or has she told you she is doing this?

My DH works away most weeks - every so often at random points he is around in the week and I will leave the youngest to do school run - she has on occasion stood in the window looking forlorn while ignoring her Dad in same room as her.

Even without her forlorn looks being witnessed every single time someone will ask what I've done with the other DC.

If you are sure - then YANBU.

I don't leave my 7 year old despite her being very sensible - it does get to to a pain when only one DC is ill and I can't get anyone to help so have to walk in with all including the ill DC to school.

LibertineLover · 14/05/2013 11:13

Don't any of the other Mums ask where her 4 year old is??! I left my 2 year old in the car once right outside school,when she had had a really bad night and had fallen asleep, so didn't want to wake her, I must have had 10 people ask where she was!!

of course it's not alright, it's a terrible incident waiting to happen.

Be careful of warning her though, if she takes no heed then you ring SS she will know it's you. Up to you, I'd just mention it to the school, they could say they niticed the 4 year old wasn't there?

threesypeesy · 14/05/2013 11:15

Absolutely not j don't let my nearly 10year old stay and home and she's very sensable and grown up for her age

valiumredhead · 14/05/2013 11:16

Why not three?

SanityClause · 14/05/2013 11:26

I know someone who is a locksmith.

He has been called out by various organisations such as housing associations and utilities companies to open doors where parents have locked their children inside, in order to "keep them safe" while they go out for whatever reason. Shock

EssexGurl · 14/05/2013 11:35

YANBU. I left my 4yo yesterday to go and post a letter - post box literally outside the house. She opened the door and came out without knickers on to tell me she had done a wee. I know I should have locked the door but never imagined she would come out. I won't be leaving her again - and that was for a matter of seconds.

However, I hate taking her on the school run. She plays on the field, runs away and makes life miserable for me and DS. So can understand why people would leave them. Just know you shouldn't.

MrsMelons · 14/05/2013 11:43

I can't believe someone suggested that you could offer to watch the 4YO - why should she???

I think when MN is unanimous like this you know you should do something!

I did not know that you could get prosecuted for leaving a child alone - why do people you see/hear about on the news who leave their children alone or let them out alone at a young age who then get abducted etc not get prosecuted? How could the police possibly determine when someone is being irresponsible or it is just an accident if there is no age limit? Genuine question - I had no idea people could be prosecuted.

everlong · 14/05/2013 12:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rockinhippy · 14/05/2013 12:55

MrsMelons there is no law on this, you can't be prosecuted. The only time they could prosecute is if something bad happens as a direct result of neglect, the law is a really grey area on this, so thats unlikely to happen, especially if a otherwise good family have just paid the highest price for their stupidity :(

I was thinking on that aspect of it & it is a difficult one, you can imagine if the law suddenly decreed that leaving a DC under 10 was breaking the law - then that suddenly makes it okay to leave all DCs 10 & older - which obviously isn't always safe - for instance, my pyromaniac DB certainly would have burnt the house down - make the law that only older DCs can be left alone - then how does that help the sensible, older minded ones, as i was & my own DD become independent

There does need to be a legal answer, in order to make some braindead parents act responsibly, but I don't know what it isConfused

hopingnothopping · 14/05/2013 13:02

I suppose you have to think what the alternatives are. If the mother is otherwise a good mother then perhaps this little girl's life is, on balance, better with her mother than in care even taking this school run issue into account.

But that is an important "if":

Does the little girl seem neglected in any other way? Is she clean and well fed for instance? If the being left home alone is just one of many instances of neglect then you should consider involving SS and some serious concern.

valiumredhead · 14/05/2013 13:23

rock If a mother leaves her child day after day for long periods of time, the child is being neglected. I am pretty sure you can be prosecuted for neglect. They don't just wait until something awful happens, that's why SS intervene with help and support if appropriate.

valiumredhead · 14/05/2013 13:25

hoping there are no alternatives if a 4 year old is being left by themselves. SS do what they can to keep families together they don't usually swoop in and put a child into care.

MrsMelons · 14/05/2013 13:48

Rockin It is a very difficult one, it seems sensible to have an age limit but like you say not all 10 or 11 year olds can be trusted to be left.

I think there is some sort of law that says the children must be able to be in contact with a responsible adult - a friend of mind told me that after a safeguarding course as she was shocked there is no legal age limit.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 14/05/2013 14:06

The GOV.UK site says (paraphrasing) that's it's an Offence to leave a young child where they can be put in danger or be a danger to themselves.
And the parents can be prosecuted.

OP - put yourself in the situation where the 4yo hurts herself or falls or (Heaven forbid) opens the door to someone.

And you've done nothing even though you knew.
I don't think you should look after the child. If the school is near she can take her.
And don't 'pre-warn' her.
She must be aware what she's doing isn't right.
And you'll get the blame if she's reported (even if someone else reports her).

I can't imagine that SS involvment would lead to this child being removed if there are no other issues. But really there's no earthly reason why this child doesn't go with her Confused.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 14/05/2013 14:10

Actually the schools distance makes no difference.
Presumably she leaves her because it's not far.
But other people manage to take small children out to school.

Rockinhippy · 14/05/2013 14:11

I think there is some sort of law that says the children must be able to be in contact with a responsible adult - a friend of mind told me that after a safeguarding course as she was shocked there is no legal age limit

I hope that is right mrsMelons, that at least means leaving younger DCs as with the OPs situation illegal, you can't rely on a preschooler to be able to accurately use a telephone or even read a phone number to contact someone - some can of course, (mine could) but I think that's more likely to be rare, rather than the norm.

I was shocked too when I found out there was no law - back when I was getting nagged to death by the then 7 yr old who wanted to be left in alone to watch TV whilst I went out shopping - I so wanted a law to back my saying no up, as she hates breaking rules Grin

I do wonder about that though Valium if its an otherwise very well cared for DC being left for say 20 minutes a day, as there is no law, could they really cite that as neglectConfused - I would love to think they could, but can they - I would love to see someone with SS links to answer that - though I would like to think in most cases, them/the school "having a word" might be enough to put the wind up parents like the OPs neighbour e ought for them to stop

Floggingmolly · 14/05/2013 14:12

Why should op offer to have the child? Her mum should be taking her on the school run, there seems very little reason not to?