Miss/Mrs/Ms

[MephistophelesSister]

I don't usually get to het up about Miss/Mrs/Ms (and apologies in advance, because I know the debate crops up on here fairly frequently) But I am trying to buy some insurance, and am starting to lose my temper.

I am married, but I sometimes use my maiden name. For this particular insurance I actually need to use my maiden name. However, if I try and select 'Miss', the helpful website blocks me from proceeding with the message 'marital status does not correspond with title'.

I am fully entitled to use the prefix Dr. Unfortunately loads of websites won't offer this as an option (which is a pity, as I find it a handy dodge). In this case they will, but I gained my doctorate under my married name, so that doesn't sit right.

I can't (or really, really, shouldn't) lie about my marital status - that would put me on shaky ground if I ever came to claim, and might influence the quote. But as far as I know there is no law against/reason why a married woman can't continue to use her maiden name and prefix it with 'Miss'?

Using 'Mrs' in front of my maiden name just seems wrong, and I have simply never liked 'Ms'.

[Wails] why can't they just let me have it my way!!!

MephistophelesSister i would advise you to speak to your insurers and disclose the passport / driving licence names. If you don't and have a major loss that you need to claim for (major property fire - total loss). Insurers will investigate and likely send an adjuster. If this is discovered the underwriter has grounds to decline cover. It's best to get written confirmation that the underwriter is aware and agrees to your circumstances.

Just trying to be helpful. Or just ignore me. Not my business I understand.

I think it is normal procedure to accept a cheque in a maiden name into a married name account, provided you show your marriage certificate.

Well, I've never had any luck with paying married name cheques into my maiden name bank account, although it has only happened twice in 13 years. Once right back at the start and once a couple of months ago. I have absolutely no ID in DH's surname though as I never use it.

LittlePeaPod that does sound sinister - and I will take a much closer look at the policy. Thank you for your advise. If that is how it works then perhaps I will have to be more careful. The mortgage on the property being insured is in the same name, though.

Does that mean that if you marry mid-way through a policy and change your name on your passport, but forget/can't be bothered to switch it over with the insurance company then they can wriggle out of paying also .

I still have an old [obviously obsolete] passport with my maiden name

*advice

Does that mean that if you marry mid-way through a policy and change your name on your passport, but forget/can't be bothered to switch it over with the insurance company then they can wriggle out of paying also

Yes they can use it to decline. They can argue non disclosure of a material change. Your policy is a contractual agreement (the same as any legal contract) as far as they are concerned. Underwriters are pretty dry about these things. But the are also normally flexible if they are told about unusual situations. What they don't like is anything they perceive to be non disclosure and worse of all. knowingly not disclosing something.

I am afraid the old passport won't wash. They will ask for an updated one if an investigation should take place...

crikey. I can sort of see why in my case it might look dodgy, (and I will take care that I am properly covered pronto!) but failing to pay out in the newlywed scenario would be harsh!

Even more glad I decided not to change name now reading this,

They are normally ok if they know about stuff. I am afraid they wouldn't take newlywed scenario into account. Underwriters are black and white. No grey areas. All they think is "it's it covered under the terms of the policy?" , "Is it possibly fraudulent?" etc. they don't see the human face behind the policy especially if they have to pay out a huge amount of money. they are not making the profits they used to so they have become mich more stringent in their underwriting disciplines. So newlywed wont even register unless forced to by media pressure which may impact their brand reputation. Think, robots and you nearly there.

This is the first time I've ever hear of Ms being "reserved" for divorced women!

As far as I knew, it gained prominence when Gloria Steinem and other feminists established Ms. magazine in 1971.

Ms. has never had the "divorced" connotation in the US and is now essentially the default title for women, especially in business settings.

Also more and more businesses in the US (banks included) are using no titles at all in correspondence, addressing envelopes as simply "John Smith" and letter salutations as "Dear John Smith." This is the traditional Quaker practice (although of course not the reason so many are doing it), based on notions of equality.

Well Scone I've never heard of that here in the UK either!

I also use the "Dear Jane Smith" or even "Dear J Smith" if that's all I have to go on.

If someone couldn't be arsed to tell me their initial I'd use "Dear Smith"!

I just think people get way too het up about titles. The truth is that nowadays you have to have a title of some sort for any identification data which is held on a computer.

I'm still amused by Slug's post, assuming the poor bank worker was enquiring about her "sexual availability". Hilarious!

Poor bloke.

I have always used Ms.

It is now policy at my work that all men are referred to as Mr and all women as Ms in all correspondence. Unless they have an 'earned' title like Dr or Rev, but even then if it isn't immediately obvious Mr/Ms it is.

Makes things much easier.

In Canada women are assumed to be Ms, unless they specify as Mrs. Miss is something used for children - the way the British use Master. I find it strange that adult women chose to be called Miss. It just seems wrong.

I agree that titles should be abolished. Love the swedish way of first name, last name.

This is why girls should be Miss, and women should be Mrs, and it just changes automatically on age, just like it does for men.

Olgaga I can't see where she said the bank worker was male - have I missed something?

As someone newly divorced this is on my mind a bit. I cba to change any cards from Mrs as it doesn't interest me and I don't use a title anyway unless forced to.

I am buying a property atm and it comes up with agents. The other day an agent asked me my title when registering me and it was so obvious that she we sizing me up as 'divorcee' or 'family wife who is not the sole decision maker'. Made me feel really awkward. I couldn't really avoid the question. I said Miss in the end (as I didn't know what to say tbh) and in the end as the convo progressed I admitted I was selling the family home and getting divorced. She looked at me 'hard' and said 'yes I thought so'. Labelled or what honestly! All because of a title...

This is why girls should be Miss, and women should be Mrs, and it just changes automatically on age, just like it does for men.

Agree with it changing on age, but I'd say it should be Miss, then Ms.

just use Ms much simpler!

I'm in Switzerland, and here it does exactly that. Miss for girls up to about 14, then Mrs for 14+. Works well.

I'd prefer just Ms in the same way that Master has been dropped and males are just Mr (though titles not often used for children).

In france it's very variable when Madamoiselle changes to Madame (excuse bad spelling)... some see being called the former a complement, I was certainly called the former in Paris when I was around 18-20 which was ok in the situations I was in but in a workplace I wouldn't have wanted my youth drawn attention to.
Fair enough if it changes at 14 in Switzerland or Germany... but in france it certainly doesn't.. and in Germany I'm sure i've heard frauline used for women in the 18-25 age group...

I've always thought as Fraeulein as being similar to calling someone 'young lady' - could be seen as quite endearing, or could be very, very patronising. Always makes me think of the Captain and Maria in The Sound of Music!

I'm a Ms, and will remain a Ms when I get married.

I'm a married Miss, because I like Miss and if people didn't change their names there wouldn't be anything to talk about. So the way I see it is Mrs means you changed your name to someone else's name, Miss means you didn't. No one needs to know whether you are married or not, because no one needs to know if men are. Miss is correct, as well - old film stars, writers who kept their names, etc, have always been referred to as Miss Crawford, Miss Blyton, Miss Davis, and so on, when they were married.

In over 30 yrs of using Ms I had NEVER heard that it was supposed to mean divorced until I came on MN I probably just dont read the kind of media that feeds that assumption. Where possible I don't use a title, when a web site or form "forced" me into using one I would use Ms (never changed to his surname for any purpose whatsoever. Simpler to keep my own). Once I had a PhD I started to use Dr.