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Original poster

Miss/Mrs/Ms

159 replies

MephistophelesSister · 13/05/2013 20:26

I don't usually get to het up about Miss/Mrs/Ms (and apologies in advance, because I know the debate crops up on here fairly frequently) But I am trying to buy some insurance, and am starting to lose my temper.

I am married, but I sometimes use my maiden name. For this particular insurance I actually need to use my maiden name. However, if I try and select 'Miss', the helpful website blocks me from proceeding with the message 'marital status does not correspond with title'.

I am fully entitled to use the prefix Dr. Unfortunately loads of websites won't offer this as an option (which is a pity, as I find it a handy dodge). In this case they will, but I gained my doctorate under my married name, so that doesn't sit right.

I can't (or really, really, shouldn't) lie about my marital status - that would put me on shaky ground if I ever came to claim, and might influence the quote. But as far as I know there is no law against/reason why a married woman can't continue to use her maiden name and prefix it with 'Miss'?

Using 'Mrs' in front of my maiden name just seems wrong, and I have simply never liked 'Ms'.

[Wails] why can't they just let me have it my way!!!

OP posts:
Decoy · 14/05/2013 17:09

Agree with slug. The default should be Ms, as it doesn't give anything away. Then women have a choice whether to specify their marital status later (by giving a different title or otherwise), without this being the default.

lottiegarbanzo · 14/05/2013 18:06

It's always banks isn't it! I've certainly, in my younger days, gone off on the 'you do realise that asking for a mother's maiden name is as useless as security information at it is anachronistic?' theme - as you cannot safely assume anyone's mother was married and, if she was, changed her name.

We agreed I could use my cat's name but they really did not comprehend, at all. Now I just use whatever word or phrase I want and avoid discussion but the question is still asked sometimes.

LadySlatternlysHoover · 14/05/2013 18:12

I hate the term "maiden name" but I guess that's a whole other thread Grin

limitedperiodonly · 14/05/2013 18:55

I don't like Ms. I think of Miss as all-purpose female title to be used married or not. I think we should abolish Ms and Mrs, actually.

I'm with eldritch

limitedperiodonly · 14/05/2013 19:01

Miss advertises you as unmarried and therefore available

No. I'm available according to my own wishes, not those of anyone else. I hope that one day this concept will be universally accepted.

exoticfruits · 14/05/2013 19:05

Miss advertises you as unmarried and therefore available

What an odd idea.

exoticfruits · 14/05/2013 19:07

I know people who are Miss and married or living with someone. Anyone would think it was more desirable to be married.

Lavenderandlimes · 14/05/2013 19:10

I'm married. I still use miss 95% of the time. I find mrs so old fashioned!

Pandemoniaa · 14/05/2013 19:22

Miss advertises you as unmarried and therefore available

That's a peculiarly ancient viewpoint. If it ever were a realistic viewpoint.

I use my maiden name but have been "Ms" since my 30. "Miss" seems to have such simperingly youthful connotations and I'm in my 50s and not at all simpery. But I'm entitled to call myself "Miss" despite not being available!

I'm about to get married and don't intend to change my name although I'm not going to have conniptions if people who don't know differently/aren't at all close to me, automatically refer to me as Mrs X. However, I'd be equally pissed off if some computerised form refused to accept that marital status alone should dictate what title I use.

YA definitely NBU. In this day and age being prescriptive about title and marital status and ruling one out on the basis of the other is as ridiculous as the assumption of availability, or otherwise, if you choose to call yourself "Miss".

Original poster
MephistophelesSister · 14/05/2013 19:33

There is some really interesting food for thought on this thread - I am glad that I started it.

I just thought that I would add, that whilst I personally don't like 'Ms' I have no problem at all with other people using it. It is simply with my own name that I make a stand.

In regard to 'hiding' being married by using 'Miss' - I really don't see it that way at all. I am in the 'Miss' = catchall camp. When I got married it was after 12yrs of being with DP (now DH) under my maiden name. I was asked at the registry office to express a preference for future use and was a bit wrongfooted. I said 'Mrs DHsname' at the time.

I have my passport in my married name, and my driving licence in my maiden name. Everything associated with the home we owned in my name before we got married (mortgage, bills, insurance) stayed in my maiden name. The insurance was for this home, and was to be paid out of a bank account in my maiden name, prefixed with 'Miss' - so for consistency I wanted to keep it that way when switching to a cheaper insurer.

A while back there was a comment about credit ratings. I have honestly never had a problem. Both Equifax and Experian link my aliases without any fuss and I am perfectly creditworthy Smile. I was actually surprised at how much they do know, given the chopping and changing. (I think it helps if you pay your bills on time, mind Wink.

Perhaps I am unusual seeing this way, but I actually quite like being a woman and being able to use either Miss or Mrs (or Ms for those who prefer that). I am proud to be DHs wife and to carry the same name as all my immediate family, but I don't want to throw away my previous name and identity. It is quite a privilege to be able to keep both alive (though increasingly difficult with online forms...). When I really want to hide I use Dr - then people really do just assume you are a man.

Anyhow, for anyone trying to get insurance as a married woman who wants to use 'Miss' - I can vouch for the fact that it is entirely legal and that insurance companies are happy to do it, just so long as you can navigate the comparison websites first Grin

OP posts:
LessMissAbs · 14/05/2013 19:48

Miss advertises you as unmarried and therefore available

Since I'm going to stick with Miss until I die, which I hope means I will be fairly elderly, I would hope that it would not "advertise" me thus.

The quid pro quo is that "Mr" doesn't advertise men as anything, which is worrying ie are they available to all, married or not?

OP, I do think that insisting that you cannot use "Miss" while having a status as married is discrimination under the 1975 Act on the part of the insurance company. Time to get your computer systems updated, insurers!

Growlithe · 14/05/2013 20:58

Meph It was me who made the comment about credit rating. The Credit Reference Agencies will link all aliases you go by, declared and undeclared, and also your voters roll information.

Even with an unblemished credit history, when scoring you for any future credit you apply for, your aliases may cause you to be referred to manual underwriting (and maybe to the fraud team also).

Manual underwriting obviously takes more time and effort, and can sometimes result in you missing the boat on good rates offered on products for limited periods.

So it can actually pay to keep all your financial affairs (and ID) in line, and pick one name and stick to it.

LittlePeaPod · 14/05/2013 21:09

MephistophelesSister. Just a thought. You are right no legal requirement for a married woman not to use her maiden name. But it's a contractual obligation on insurance policies for you to use your legal name (name on passport) when obtaining a quote/setting up a policy. It's a material fact and would invalidate all cover if its discovered you (in the underwriters opinion) lied about your legal name

LittlePeaPod · 14/05/2013 21:11

Sorry forgot to mention. I work in the industry..

LittlePeaPod · 14/05/2013 21:14

Sorry forgot to mention. Most of the companies on comparison sites are fronts. They don't hold the pen on the policies and can't make decisions on underwriting/contractual wordings (eg material facts).

TolliverGroat · 14/05/2013 21:17

If you don't have a passport or a driving licence then what is your legal name?

LittlePeaPod · 14/05/2013 21:18

I guess the question is. If you got a passport what name would you use without the requirement of a deed poke change?

LittlePeaPod · 14/05/2013 21:19

Deed pole.... Ha a

Growlithe · 14/05/2013 21:21

Similarly with Credit Reference Agencies really. They hold the facts and link information, but it is ip to each financial institution how they use that information in their scorecards.

I used to work in IT for a financial institution. I must admit, all the ID and accounts in different names but running concurrently made me feel a bit queasy.

That is not to say you should not be married and still be a Miss, of course.

Original poster
MephistophelesSister · 14/05/2013 21:24

I have both a driving licence and a passport. They are just in different names. Therefore I can provide ID in either.

As far as I know, I haven't lied about my name! I just choose to have more than one.

Some things it is actually impossible to change your name for, in any case. I have a paypal account in my maiden name, and they make it so difficult to change it I would have to closeit and open a new one.

OP posts:
Growlithe · 14/05/2013 21:24

Tolliver I think in that case it would probably be whatever name is on all of the the ID the company asks you to provide.

TolliverGroat · 14/05/2013 21:24

So it would invalidate all cover if an underwriter thinks that if you applied for a hypothetical passport you would use a different name from the name that you think you would use if you applied for a hypothetical passport?

Original poster
MephistophelesSister · 14/05/2013 21:27

Shortly after I got married, I informed my main bank account and they were happy to accept cheques in either name for years afterward. I checked with them, and it wasn't an oversight - just their normal procedure. I don't think it is as bizarre as some people think.

OP posts:
LittlePeaPod · 14/05/2013 21:27

Why would it be hypothetical? I think most people know what their legal name is and what they would put on their passport. Pretty black and white really.

Jan49 · 14/05/2013 21:35

Miss advertises you as unmarried and therefore available

I think the point is that this is what it used to be intended to tell people.
Adult women were either engaged, married or 'available' and the rings on their fingers and their titles told men which they were. It's archaic, but as many women in the UK still use rings and titles to display their marital status, it continues. That's why it's so much better IMO to use Ms as an adult title for all women, a female equivalent to Mr.