to be ? that a teacher told my dd (6yrs) to wear cycling shorts under her summer dress if she was going to be doing cartwheels?

[mulranno]

?

Sainsburys stock girls school uniform shorts. I think they had some culottes too.

DD has got culottes for school as she doesn't like skirts, I'm assuming the school won't complain.

Of course girls should be allowed to wear shorts/trousers as their school uniform if they so choose but if they prefer to wear a skirt they shouldn't be made to feel ashamed at 6 years old for flashing a bit of knicker.

I still think that summer dresses for school are a stupid idea. They reinforce the difference between girls and boys, and can encourage girls to modify their behaviour in inhibiting ways, at a young age where they should be enjoying their physicality and working out for themselves which activities they like.

When DD was 5/6, she had various pairs of stretch cotton shorts that she wore outside school. They were comfortable and practical, came in different colours and did not require specific underwear. There is no need for little girls to be layering up for modesty - shorts are enough. (Having said that, she did go through a phase of enjoying wearing lots of clothes at the same time, ie trousers under dresses, with a cardi and a scarf, but that was mostly at home.)

And tbh, underwear is also on display on a regular basis just because in the summer women tend to wear clothes that are transparent.
or when they go out for the night and wear very transparent clothes etc. which allow anyone to see their bras for example.

If we all want to be chocked by a girl flashing very quickly their knickers doing a cartwheel, then I think we will have to make a lot change in the way girls/women/teenage boys are dressing.

The whole idea of modification of behaviour leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

Well like it or not, that's part of the learning process!

It's not expected, or acceptable, for boys to display their underwear. Why should it be any different for girls?

If 6 year old boys started taking their trousers off to play at school in the because they were hot, would that be OK?

Or would it be better to tell them that when they're out and about they're not expected to have their underwear visible?

Would a mother complain if her 6yo son was told by a teacher not to display his underwear?

I doubt it. So why should it be any different for girls?

But that doesn't seem to shock anyone. Why?

It shocks me. Disgusting. And shows a complete lack of understanding of what the true meaning behind doing that actually is.

This thread has left me utterly depressed.

I remember when I was a kid in the 1970s a group of us were doing handstands in the street. An old lady came out and told us off for showing our knickers. We thought it was hysterical and so did our parents! I am amazed that almost 40 years later, this eccentric behaviour seems to have turned mainstream. How things turn around!

I mean that the old lady was eccentric, not us.

Olgaga Because boys don't wear skirts and girls do. There's a fair few schools round here who demand a summer dress as the summer uniform and girls shouldn't be made to wear extra clothing because the school can't sort their uniform policy out.

We're talking about 6 year olds FGS, who cares if they flash a bit of knicker when doing a cartwheel.

Ridiculous. And yes, I think it is worth getting 'het up' about it.

Why should girls be made less comfortable to suit the teachers ideals. Most kids couldn't give a shit - particularly at age 6! Make it the child's choice.

Also, surely there is a much lower non-existent chance of someone taking an 'upskirt' picture in a school playground? Unless it was another child?

Although, thinking logically, if someone takes a pic and uploads it, I'd like to think they would be caught and logged as a sex offender (so they could be monitored), rather than just furiously wanking behind the bushes.

(Sorry, that's disgusting)

I always had my knickers out in primary school. No one cared at my school, we just played and enjoyed ourselves. In fact mine are on show right now because I'm upside down in a dressing gown. I am a vile heathen.

If the kids are all playing and having innocent fun with no bullying or whatever then I don't see the problem.

HOWEVER, if the schools playground was perhaps under threat as a "hotspot", if you like, for nasty dirty old men walking past taking pictures then I could completely understand it.

I think it's one of those things where it's quite dependent on the circumstances. There's also the preference of the child/parent etc. and the shorts themselves open up a whole can of worms. We were only allowed grey shorts/trousers. Not black. Not blue like the schools colours. Grey.

Chubby How old are you? We all just played in school and had our knickers constantly on display. No one cared and it was fun.

Its normal in dd's school that they wear cycling shorts under their dresses. Its stated as part of the uniform required.

Schro I'm 21, so we're looking at the 90s when I was doing it.

Oh stop with the overexcited burkas are the next step comments.

It's about a simple generally acknowledged, albeit irrational, social norm that we all adhere to.

That is Underwear is not for public display.

It's nonsensical, as I would happily wear a bikini in front of friends on holiday by the pool but not my bra and pants in my kitchen with them at home.

Children can wear leotards to do gymnastics but not just their pants In The supermarkets.

Etc etc add your own example of our inconsistent, irrational but generally adhered to social norms regarding underwear.

One is : children should have their underwear covered when at school.

Not becuase it inspires lust in peados, not just because their girls, but just because its underwear which in that context is not socially acceptable, for girls or boys, and therefore makes people start to feel a bit uncomfortable. And even kids know this, that's why they snigger.

It's barmy but true. and Im sure most of you sad faced liberal hard liners on here adhere to this irrational inconsistent underwear norm most of the time.

If any of you are that naked walker guy I stand corrected and apologise.

Chubby I'm 22 and was one of the youngest in my year so it is maybe a generational thing?

DD always wears cycling shorts under her skirts and dresses - at school or not. It means she can be as boisterous in play as the likes while remaining modest and not feeling exposed - just like boys do in shorts!

I think it's really weird to just accept as the norm that small children should wear shorts under skirts. Particularly as you can get 'boy style' pants now.

I'd be really hacked off if someone decided to dictate to me what I wore under my clothes. Surely not every girl in a skirt does handstands?

Schro I was a summer baby too! I think it may have been our generation haha! IIRC the 90s was a fairly safe time for children, or it was at least round here. Problem is, with me still being only 5 minutes away from the school I want to send my children there, and they've knocked it down and moved it one street over, so the play area is now much further down the rapey dodgy cycle tracks so I will probably be sending my daughter if I have one with shorts just for that reason. It's not a nice place to have a playground looking onto, so much crime has been reported down there since they built over the old train track, DP won't even let me go jogging down there now.

So like I say, all depends on the circumstances. Had the school been in its old place then I would have just gone with a dress and nicely fitting pants if she even wanted dresses at all.

euphemiaLennox They are not turning up for school in just their pants though are they? They are wearing something over them - dresses!! They are just briefly revealing them them as they engage in a normal play activity

Chubby I was a Feburary baby and just made it into the early school start.

That's awful. :( I understand in those circumstances. My school was knocked down too and I am not familliar with the schools in the area I now live in.

I would have told the teacher not to be so ridiculous, fgs the child is six, what on earth is wrong with seeing her knickers?

Revealing underwear in most public situations can make people feel uncomfortable, as we understand it's not the social norm, as underwear is meant to remain covered.

This does generally apply to children as well as adults, although we tend to be more relaxed about children's unintentional underwear displays and enjoy their naïveté of the social norms which we increasingly adhere to as we become older.

I can understand however that a daily repeating of this underwear display in the summer playground can start to feel inappropriate against the social norm.

It's all about context, underwear and public situations.

ah well we have it easy, (international school in the middle east) the school uniform is PE uniform (shorts) in kindergarten, and skorts further up the school.

However every time there is a dress up day of any sort, the notes say "don't forget to cover your knees and shoulders".

Which is anyway ridiculous, as half of them show their knees in normal school uniform (the shorts/skorts are long enough that not all do), but does really irritate me on the basis that it is, again, imposing adult 'modesty' (and 'don't offend anyone') standards on pre-pubescent children.

(I don't think it should be a problem showing pants under dresses but can see it's easier to ask for shorts on all than to tell some people to wear more suitable knickers)