To think that no child should be allowed to ruin the learning of 29 children

[ReallyTired]

My son's year 6 class has been constantly distruped by one or two children. It is unfair that 28 children cannot learn because of the behaviour of one or two.

I feel it really doesn't matter what the reason is for a child who constantly misbehaves (before someone gets out the flame thrower/ violin) the other children have a right to learn in a calm ordered environment. Often badly children do not have learning difficulties or difficult family circumstances.

Or put it another way some children with special needs or a difficult home life have explematory behaviour.

It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need) or constantly shouting out or arguing with the teacher because their parents can't afford private school.

It would be interesting to know what other countries do with children who constantly distrupt the class. (Other than using the cane.)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

It is possible, in a small community school where everyone is relaxed and working together to have NO problems with discipline. Really. We have children with all sorts of problems / issues and there are no problems at all where I work. The place is calm and purposeful (if a little too relaxed - deadlines can be an issue!) and everyone gets on with things. Any low level disruption is tackled quickly and effectively, often by the pupils themselves saying things like, "Please don't talk, I am working." We place a lot of emphasis on your own targets and working out your own strengths and weaknesses.

It can be done.

And this is in the big, bad world of High School.

So clouds you basically want the most vulnerable pupils being taught but TAs?

They are not neccesarily the most vulnerable. And in my experience, they are often very intelligent and capable.

Of course it's not ideal for them to be taught by TAs, although experienced TAs are perfectly capable of delivering lessons, especially in the age group I work with, but if getting a TA is going to be difficult, then getting a qualified teacher for them is going to be impossible.

You need to remember the point that the child in question is unlikely to be achieving their potential in the class, and nor are any of the others. It's about using the available resources in the best way possible. It's not about making sure every child gets the same no matter what.

"Of course it's not ideal for them to be taught by TAs"

Damn right is isn't.

And is hopefully illegal too.

"You need to remember the point that the child in question is unlikely to be achieving their potential in the class, and nor are any of the others. It's about using the available resources in the best way possible. It's not about making sure every child gets the same no matter what."

But it IS exactly about that.

And that is why your attitude is revolting, sorry.

I had a sensible post lined up, but then I read reallytireds last post...

You came right out with it there didn't you?

Following your example, I will do the same.

OP you are an arsehole.

"Those of you who want the less than perfect children isolated, what happens when they become adults? We do all have to live together in society."

Unless a child gets help when they are young they are going to struggle as adults. Having an isolation unit is a way of giving EBD children help. They can cool off and come to their senses away from an audiance. They can talk through their feelings and actions with an experienced higher level TA. The HLTA can set up a plan for integrating the child back into the classroom or prehaps help with social stories.

Lots of secondary schools use internal isolation to manage poor behaviour and it does work. Permament exclusion is a utter last resort.

Generally the child is sent to the isolation unit for an afternoon or a day. It is more effective than suspending a child as they do not get a "holiday". Working parents are not inconvienced by having their child suspended.

The worse punishment at many primary schools is either missing golden time/ play time or fixed term exclusion. There is nothing in between fixed term exclusion and missing play time.

Just read the post re ickle didums....

Wow.... Disgusting on so many levels, and such ignorance...

So you want every child to be given the same in a mainstream primary school, even though they clearly have different needs?

Do you even know what the reality of that would be?

So you are writing them off.

Your happy to push them off to a corner as long as the teacher is able to look after the "good" children sod the rest.

amber

Please, can no-one report the ickle diddums post. I would like it to stand.

beer

Yes, of course no child would ever be bullied for having to go and attend special separate "naughty" lessons

Children are separated into ability groups all the time. It isn't the big problem that you and some others on here perceive it to be. It's a good thing FFS.

My child is unlikely to be independent and to read or write (not "ramping things up", just how it is)

Should we therefore sack her teacher and just grab a monkey from the zoo to teach her?

Yes I agree Wilson.

Let it stand.

I also agree Wilson...

Let it stand

ReallyTired

That last post of yours disgusts me, - this is just a child you're talking about, one who most likely does need specific help.

There is currently a problem with one child in my son's class, she is very disruptive in class and aggressive on the playground. She bullies DS and a handful of others too, he has started having nightmares about her.

However, I cannot fault the way in which the school are dealing with it. He and the others affected know they are believed, they know she has time taken away, they know she is now excluded from the playground, and they know she is being monitored. And we parents know this and that the next step is full exclusion.

They are doing their best for all the children, and for this one child and her parents to improve matters.

And yes, I was pissed off that this one child was effectively ruining the experience of my precious ickle diddum's school life - but then I thought about the other child and the parents who were going through this.

beer it is falling on deaf ears as some of these posters are truly stuck in believing that their precious little darlings are being cheated out of an education and don't want to be swayed by something as logical as a behaviour policy!

Meanwhile up and down the country, schools are seeing massive cuts in their budgets. Cuts which will minimise their opportunity to work effectively with these children. Still...we DID vote this Govt in so we have to live with it.
I have to live with shit support for my autistic child and people like the OP have to accept that this means disruptive classes will get worse instead of better.
As it happens, my DS is not disruptive, but if he was then no amount of my "ickle didikums" being taken off "to think about his behaviour" would help without some decent 1-1 support to enable this.
Shame support is being cut right, left and centre isn't it?

DS1 would probably have been one of the children you are talking about.

He struggled desperately with the environment of a mainstream classroom -- used to hum, sing, fidget, rock, click, god knows what. Staff were in despair over how to get him to settle and work quietly, as no motivation or punishment seemed effective.

Then we had found a better than usual Ed Psych, who pointed out that the result of the disruption was that he got sent out. Ergo, she reckoned, he was doing it, whether consciously or not, in order to be sent out -- because he couldn't stand being in the room.

So she instructed the school to use 'time out' as a reward for good, quiet, concentrated work, instead of a punishment. They weren't too keen on this!

But it worked, and gradually they managed to build up his tolerance so that he could stick the classroom for longer.

I still hold her in great affection years later.

Isolation doesn't teach children who have problems with impulse control how to fit in, Reallytired. Yes, some children are badly behaved because of their home situation or because they're not used to boundaries being set, but you're talking about children still in primary school who need support, not condemnation. And certainly not name calling.

I'm sure that if someone started a thread along the lines of "AIBU to think this child needs to grow a thicker skin?" and then described a child who, in their opinion, appeared to be particularly anxious, bothered by everything going on around him, including a bit of humming, stressed out by exams etc you would agree that the nervous child needed support - in opposition to people declaring that the child just needed to tough up and back in the 60s, children just got on with it and didn't get nervous, while kids these days are wrapped in cotton wool, etc etc...

A lot of children need support to survive in a class of 30. Some express their discomfort by becoming fretful. Others by acting out. They all need patience and appropriate handling, in the first instance.