To think that no child should be allowed to ruin the learning of 29 children

[ReallyTired]

My son's year 6 class has been constantly distruped by one or two children. It is unfair that 28 children cannot learn because of the behaviour of one or two.

I feel it really doesn't matter what the reason is for a child who constantly misbehaves (before someone gets out the flame thrower/ violin) the other children have a right to learn in a calm ordered environment. Often badly children do not have learning difficulties or difficult family circumstances.

Or put it another way some children with special needs or a difficult home life have explematory behaviour.

It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need) or constantly shouting out or arguing with the teacher because their parents can't afford private school.

It would be interesting to know what other countries do with children who constantly distrupt the class. (Other than using the cane.)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

My friend is a teacher with about 25 years experience and this Sept was the first time ever I have heard her praise her class. She said they are lovely, really well behaved and keen.

So clouds you basically want the most vulnerable pupils being taught but TAs?

YANBU.

taught BY TAs even

'Bad behaviour should never be tolerated. Racism, bullying or totally wrecking a teachers lesson should never be tolerated.'

Agree with ReallyTired.

Most children in my DCs class are fine whether or not they have SN. But the two that spoil it are not just humming or shouting out etc but they are bullying, racially abusing, physically violent etc. Girls have had their hair cut off for example as well as called Crack Whores. This was also said to the teacher more than once. Not sure why kids should 'learn to tolerate' this?

bad behaviour should be dealt with no matter what the reason. Schools should be stricter.

The two very disruptive and violent DC in my older DDs class ended up at a behaviour school after a few months in high school and are doing well.

I just think a lot of people here are trying to word it nicely but really...just want the more challenging kids away out of sight and away from their DC..and don't really care about their education.

It is a dog eat dog world but we have to cater for every child.

In an ideal world my DD wouldn't be sitting next to a girl who screams all the time either but they are both well supported, my DD is still happy at school and the other girl is doing well too.

Poppadom - in an ideal world, every child is taught in an environment that is the best environment for them. For some kids, that's never going to be in a class of 30. In an ideal world, there would be decent educational options in abundance for those kids who can't be institutionalised in that way. In an ideal world, parents wouldn't need to fight for the right setting for their children.

Actually I disagree with myself there.

I dont mind DD sitting next to the girl and my ideal world would in no way involve shunting the girl off to isolation.

I just mean the noise could be disruptive to DD and ideally the room would be quiet.

My ideal world doesnt exclude others.

Do you actually care about the education of the few children, or do you just want them away from your DC?

Yes, I really do. On this thread I'm going on my experience of working with YR and KS1 children, not as a parent. My son has been one of those children that has had behaviour support and ed psychs observing him in the classroom (albeit for behaviour at the other end of the scale because he is very quiet) so this isn't some weird prejudice I have against children.

From what I have seen, (with younger children) it does more harm to leave children in a class to be disruptive, to the other children and to them.

The child who is displaying the disruptive behaviour wouldn't be being disruptive if they were engaged with and were enjoying the lesson. If there are reasons for the behaviour, then they need to be solved in their own way, but in the meantime, the behaviour still has to be managed. Which is why I'm referring to the child as disruptive instead of talking about their needs.

When a child is persistently disruptive, the other children become wary of them, even when they are young, and this can and does lead to the child being unable to form friendships. Parents get fed up of their child coming home and saying 'X got told off today', they talk amongst, themselves and they quickly work out who the child is that they would prefer theirs not to play with. Then they tell their child not to play with them, their child comes into school and says 'I'm not allowed to play with you' and the problem escalates.

It's all very well to condem my opinion as uncaring towards the child who is displaying the negative behaviour, but it honestly doesn't do anyone any favours to allow the situation to continue indefinitely, least of all the child.

Thats better. .just come right out with it.

X posted. .I was addressing ReallyTired

How patronising ReallyTired. I was trying to have some sympathy for your situation but the more you post the angrier I get.

Children don't just know how to behave, children need to be taught and supported. Pushing them out of the classroom isn't going to do anything to help anyone but hey that doesn't matter does it as long as your child is ok then its fine to write off others at the age of 10!

The children would be even more wary of the excluded ones if they were in a special 'naughty'class

I do think that constant low level disruption can seriously effect the whole class, but I don't know what the solution is. DS is in a class with a high number of difficult children, they have the reputation of the worse class ever to have been at the school - I have been told this by the children themselves. What can the teachers do though? I've spoken to the head because DS hates going in, is in tears each morning. The head says that they are aware of the issues and I really do believe that they are doing their best. If they don't remove the difficult children (and where would they go/what would become of them?) then they can only manage the behaviour.

I don't want to write off any child, but I also don't want my own child to loathe school. If he hadn't already been to three primary schools (due to moving) I'd move him but he's got one year left and I'm not sure it's the right thing to do.

@fanjo

how will school reintegrate the child back into their peer group or are they booted out for good?

In my ideal world where we can deal with these problems effectively with all the resources we need, the child wouldn't need to be reintegrated. They would only be separated during some lessons, they would still be with their peers for plenty of school activities.

would you be concerned at the effect on the child's self-esteem at being relegated to the naughty class.

Yes, but I believe that can be dealt with using a strong PSHE programme throughout the school. Children in different classes play together all the time, as do children in the same class who are in different groups for literacy and numeracy, there is no reason why it should be that big a deal.

"In my ideal world where we can deal with these problems effectively with all the resources we need, the child wouldn't need to be reintegrated. They would only be separated during some lessons, they would still be with their peers for plenty of school activities."

Yes, of course no child would ever be bullied for having to go and attend special separate "naughty" lessons.

Jesus Christ on a bike. I've read some snide, bitchy comments on MN in my time but OP's post at 14:24 takes the

What a disgusting way to talk about a ten year old child. You should be ashamed.

anyway...my DD may be in a class with lots of screaming, running about, aggression and time outs but she is still learning the important stuff like eating with a fork, putting her socks on and using the toilet.

Pfft to all this reading and maths nonsense

Yes the school should look out for every child but you can't blame the one child causing the disruption, it is up to the school to put steps into place to prevent this.