To think that no child should be allowed to ruin the learning of 29 children

[ReallyTired]

My son's year 6 class has been constantly distruped by one or two children. It is unfair that 28 children cannot learn because of the behaviour of one or two.

I feel it really doesn't matter what the reason is for a child who constantly misbehaves (before someone gets out the flame thrower/ violin) the other children have a right to learn in a calm ordered environment. Often badly children do not have learning difficulties or difficult family circumstances.

Or put it another way some children with special needs or a difficult home life have explematory behaviour.

It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need) or constantly shouting out or arguing with the teacher because their parents can't afford private school.

It would be interesting to know what other countries do with children who constantly distrupt the class. (Other than using the cane.)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

Don't make me fucking laugh re support for SN. Only today I lost a huge chunk of the little I did have.

Is that what you seriously think? We sit on our arses with all that free money and support we get (both entirely fictitious in reality) and laugh at our kids taking things away from yours?

We have to fight for every little scrap of support we get. We have to put up with people thinking we are grasping for fighting just to get our kids on a level playing field with yours.

Why are my children less deserving of an education than yours anyway?

Exactly Minifingers

Any school that is failing those with additional needs / FSM / EAL will be failing the most able equally - its just that those children will be maintaining the average, covering it better

And whilst there are schools who can do it, even on the little they have to do it with then there will be no excuse for the others.

I havent read the whole thread but I have this to say:
SEN stands for special educational need. It does not stand for learning/physical/emotional difficulties. A child with behaviour that impacts their learning has SEN, whether they have a specific problem or diagnosis or not. Their need is additional behaviour support.

If this is problem complain. DONT say that the school doesnt care. Please DONT suggest we like or want it this way. And please can everyone stop saying that these children do not deserve the extra time they get - they need it.

But do keep complaining, do keep writing letters, do keep pointing out how much it affects your child's learning. It is the only way teachers will get support.

Today I have been sworn at, had things thrown at me and my lessons disrupted by a child storming in and out repeatedly. Then they turned it around and I had to go back to nicey nicey teacher and pretend I wasn't feeling furious and hurt inside. So, possibly more than most on here, I do actually know how the other children feel. Separate schools and classes are, for most cases, not the answer.

Wow Seabird, I don't think I have read such an ignorant post for a long time!

There is no support for parents who just want their kids to get a decent education but cannot afford to pay for it

I have 3 dcs, one of whom has sn. He won't start school until Sept 2014, he does 3 hours a week at preschool, at present. I have had to fight for all the support he deserves in order to be able to access preschool education. Meetings, hours of phonecalls, endless forms etc etc. My dds were able to access that preschool education without all that input. Honestly if you think there is this endless outpouring of support for children with sn, you are completely deluded.

And for all the posters who are coming out with stuff like

I care more about my child's education and therefore future then I do about other children who have absolutely nothing to do with me

We live in a society, ffs, what are you teaching your children about society that other people don't matter?

Strong supportive leadership, willingness to stand up to LA, willing to listen to parents and value their advice, input and strategies (as opposed to calling it a partnership when what you really want is something more along the lines of outreach), tight and policed policies and regular review of the evidence base for those and education in general.

That is the solution.

Wellthen

Fancy opening a school - I reckon me and thee could rub along nicely together.

And on behalf of a parent who has a child who does all the above. I am very sorry and I want it to change too - most individual teachers go above and beyond for the children against all the odds... Thanks

Have a

It's a minefield. People want the best schools in the best areas but are down like a ton of bricks on somebody who complains about disruptive children. You only need to read the threads from those disappointed people who haven't got their children into that naice school. How do these hothouse schools cope with these disruptive children.

And you starlight - fancy opening a school?

I don't think people understand what it means to fight for a child with SN.

I will tell you.

-4 house moves in 5 years. 2 tribunals. 2 child protection allegations and subsequent investigations for 'disagreeing with professionals' (incidently timed to coinside with critical tribunal deadlines, living for a short while in a hotel.

-Selling our house to pay for therapy and solicitor fees'.

-Allegations raised by LA about claiming DLA fraudulently to insigate investigation during my DF's last few weeks of life and in within the deadline for an appeal against all provision being removed from my child's statement that was awarded by tribunal less than a year ago.

-Parent Governors meeting me for coffee to befriend me and encourage me not to choose their school.

-Telling my story to a select committee in HoC to MPs, charities, SEN laywers and LAs to find that none of them were shocked, moved or surprised at our story but simply acknowledged it as fairly standard.

Starlight sounds good! Lovely to hear that parents appreciate it, thanks for your support!

I wouldn't want my child hurt, bullied, distracted, encouraged to behave badly. But equally I wouldnt want my child ostricised (sp?), hounded out of the school, hated by staff and children alike and generally given the message 'you are not as nice or as important as the other children' - I can vouch first hand for some disgusting and appaling behaviour! But they are children. It makes me feel so sad that something is causing them to behave in this way. Imagine what it must be like to be them.

My children didn't have special needs but I have friends who have children with special needs. And yes some schools have a much better success rate at getting the most from these children and ensuring everybody in the class gets a good education. But I still think those selective schools that everyone wants their children to go to don't get those children or pass them on somewhere else if they do. I knew a very clever but difficult boy who was more or less forced out of the school into private. He did very well indeed. But the local school couldn't cope with him.

Yes, because those things will stop a child from being disruptive in a class, won't they? You can listen to parents, nag the LA and pore over policies as much as you like.

By the time wishy washy strategies make a difference, a struggling or easily disrupted child can have lost a years worth of maths lessons.

The things that make a real difference with children take alot of input from various professionals, and it can take a long time to get these things into place, and longer still for them to start to make a difference.

A behaviour policy can only go so far. There is a limit to the number of rewards a school can provide, and a limit to the the sanctions they can implement.

There is plenty of support out there for parents who cannot parent properly or have sn children

No actually, there isn't.

Which may go some way to explaining why children with SNs struggle so much in school.

Should I care more about the disruptive childrens possible sn or home life and think fuck my kids education? Seriously??

There is a middle ground you know.

We didn't even look at numbers or stats to find the "best school"... we chose based on the school itself (visited it and a number of other schools).

And we dismissed out of hand a school with a good rep that told us that if our child (with SNs) was struggling to cope, they could make sure he had "quiet time" in the detention room. Not for misbehaving, mind you, but when he was genuinely struggling to cope. We had to really fight the LA to get our DS in a SS, and that was even with his OT, paed, SALT, MS senco, MS teacher, MS 1:1 and us in his corner!

Trust me, support is not just handed out. It is generally fought hard for!

Yes, because those things will stop a child from being disruptive in a class, won't they? You can listen to parents, nag the LA and pore over policies as much as you like.

By the time wishy washy strategies make a difference, a struggling or easily disrupted child can have lost a years worth of maths lessons.

The things that make a real difference with children take alot of input from various professionals, and it can take a long time to get these things into place, and longer still for them to start to make a difference.***

God, you just don't get it, do you?!?!? Then people need to stop blaming the children and start helping in the fight to get timely appropriate support into the schools so that EVERYONE benefits!!!

I don't know whether to feel sorry for RT or to decide she's got distorted reality problem. She's been coming on here for years with grumbles about her son's education so I imagine the years have ground her down. On other hand, sometimes I have trouble believing all her stories.

If it's year 6 at least the lad will be off to High School soon and a different set of problems.

It is a hard one.

Neither of my DD's have SEN. My eldest was hit around the head with a chair in preschool by a boy with suspected autism.

When i was told i was about the hit the roof and demand everything under the sun done by the school to deal with it. Until his mum came over and apologised herself. She told me that she was so sorry that my daughter had been hurt by her son when he was having an 'episode' (her words not mine)

It was at that moment all the fight drained out of me and i realised that what was a scary moment for my eldest which has never happened again, was a day in day out thing for the boys mum.

wellthen

'By the time wishy washy strategies make a difference, a struggling or easily disrupted child can have lost a years worth of maths lessons.'

Then don't use wishy washy strategies ffs.

'The things that make a real difference with children take alot of input from various professionals, and it can take a long time to get these things into place, and longer still for them to start to make a difference.

Evidence please. IME they take a pencil and paper and a supportive leadership.

No, I do get it.

You are proving the point. Help and support is hard to get. So while all those battles are being fought, the situation has to be managed somehow, otherwise all the children in the class lose out.

It is no good for anyone for the teacher to have to continually keep reprimanding for low level misbehaviour, it become stressful for everyone in the room. It takes time away from teaching and learning.

Unless the SN is severe, it is unlikely that a child will be disruptive in every single lesson. You can take a disruptive child out of a class for maths and English, and they can participate fully in the lessons that may be likely to engage them more, and where there is more noise and interaction naturally. It is no different to taking out a child who is struggling with handwriting for extra support, or who is seeing the school counsellor. There are plenty of opportunities for the class to be together that aren't the most significant lessons.

'There is a limit to the number of rewards a school can provide, and a limit to the the sanctions they can implement.'

And there does your problem lie. Have you even read your own schools behaviour policy.

wrt to rewards and sanctions it is quality, not quantity that makes the difference.