To think that no child should be allowed to ruin the learning of 29 children

[ReallyTired]

My son's year 6 class has been constantly distruped by one or two children. It is unfair that 28 children cannot learn because of the behaviour of one or two.

I feel it really doesn't matter what the reason is for a child who constantly misbehaves (before someone gets out the flame thrower/ violin) the other children have a right to learn in a calm ordered environment. Often badly children do not have learning difficulties or difficult family circumstances.

Or put it another way some children with special needs or a difficult home life have explematory behaviour.

It is not fair that many hard working children have to put up with child X making stupid noises (NOT TOURETTES or any other special need) or constantly shouting out or arguing with the teacher because their parents can't afford private school.

It would be interesting to know what other countries do with children who constantly distrupt the class. (Other than using the cane.)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

So why do teachers tend to side with the LA against parents who are trying to get some support for their children?

I have no idea Starlight. I've only worked in one school so my experience is limited, but it is the exact opposite of yours. I have had more experience of parents who either refuse to admit there is a problem, or who don't care whether there is a problem. It's us trying to get them onside, not the other way around.

why is that a) ideal b) obvious?

It seems like common sense to me that once a variety of other approaches have been tried and have failed that the only option left is to avoid any further disruption to the class, and to provide the child with enough attention that s/he learns something.

Have you applied for a statement for this child?

No, for valid reasons, including that the child is very unlikely to get one. I don't think it's appropriate to say any more than that about an individual.

There is a lot of space for a child being disruptive enough to be damaging to other children's education without their needs being severe enough to get a statement.

To those suggesting isolation for disruptive children can you answer how disruptive a child has to be before they are carted off and educationally left to rot?

Taking a child out of a lesson to work with a TA is not carting them off and educationally leaving them to rot.

Get a grip!

Is it that they don't care, or is it that they don't agree with what it is you are trying to get them 'onside' about?

Also, I know not one person who has a child with SN (and I know a lot) that hasn't been told their child will not get a statement. If you put in the application then the very least that will happen is minds will be focussed, both at the LA and with the parents, regardless of the outcome.

Really?

Well then let me introduce myself. I'm Clouds. I have a soon who has Aspergers. He has very definite educational needs, but I was told I was unlikely to get a statement when he was first diagnosed and I was questioning these things, which is ok by me, because SA+ does the job just fine.

Is it that they don't care, or is it that they don't agree with what it is you are trying to get them 'onside' about?

I have come across some parents that don't seem to care, and I have come across parents that disagree. And like I said, I've come across parents that simply aren't ready to admit their child has a problem and needs outside help.

Actually, starlight, I was told when the boys were small that our LA almost always issues statements for children with ASD who need the support, and they were true to their word. My LA is rare, though. And I will still have all manner of hoops to jump through to get DS1 out of mainstream and into a specialist, out of area indy school because there is no suitable specialist provision within the LA area. (And, despite a wonderfully supportive small mainstream school, we're way beyond the chair throwing stage)

I believe that Britain's in ablity to deal with low level disruption in the classroom has reduced social mobility.

Yea yea it is that simple. Thank you for sharing.

Good heavens! I am astonished by the responses on this thread to what I see as a perfectly reasonable question!
My view is that it is definitely not unreasonable to expect ones child not to have to put up with constant interruptions and distraction during lessons from badly behaved pupils.
If you were in a theatre, say, and someone kept talking or standing up and generally spoiling it for everyone else, they would be asked to be quiet and if they persisted being disruptive they would be escorted out.

Yes re statements, that is something that most schools will lie about at worst and at best be realistic about, but you will on the whole be discouraged from pursuing that avenue.

Now that the individual school will finance a portion of the statement, you are going to get even more lies and lack of action from schools on that front.

Clouds you have just proved starlights point, you were told you wouldn't get a statement.

Lucky for you and your son that he doesn't need one eh.

Oh, yeah, I misread!

Sorry!

I don't care about any of this thread now because Harry Hill has just agreed to help me move house!!!

Oh fuck, did someone mention Theatres?

Please lets not go down that road again.

Really Starlight?!

Eh?!

Tell us more...

Thank you Minifingers

Yanbu.

80smum.

Are you in your 80s dear?

Things have changed since you were at school. .it's called inclusion.

I cannot take anything cloudsandtrees said since she said the kids with SEN should be taught by TA and leave the teacher for the kids with no issues.

My son IS the disruptive element in his class - he is expert in low level disruption and major kick offs... his teacher is outstanding but she does have to spend most of her days dealing with him.

He has ASD and a full time statement but he refuses to work with a TA. I am trying to move him to specialist education but it's a slow process.

But you know what I am with the OP... its unacceptable... its not fair on the other children. I find it impossible to concentrate when he is around as he constantly taps and fidgets, etc yet there are 29 other children in that class trying to learn.

My advice is this OP... write to the Headteacher and the Governors and explain your concerns. Any other action will do nothing to resolve the situation and that is even with a pinch of realism about what a letter to the Governors will do.

As a parent I can do VERY little about what the school choose to do to tackle it in school so there is no point coming to me as a parent and complaining - I have done what I can do and what I have done feels very fruitless but he wouldnt be in a provision with specialist knowledge in ASD with a statement without me nor would he be having a further review now. I am a small cog in a big machine of SEN provision and I am accepting / fairly well informed as a parent.

So get on the computer and type a letter. Ask what the behaviour management policy is, tell them your concerns and how you feel the behaviour management is failing. They have 14days to respond.

Good Luck

I'm curious. If we insisted that the TA teach the other 29 children and the teacher teach the children with difficulties, would the complainers still be happy with that? After all, if the TA is fine to teach the "difficult" children, surely the TA is fine to teach the rest, right? Bet not.

Oh but fanjo her kid has SN so she HAS to be right on this nods

Being as I've had the most unbelievably shit day and lost a large chunk of what little help we were getting I'm stepping away now and not engaging with some of the unbelievably arseholeian comments on here.

Other than to say - that's someone's baby you're bitching about right there. Unless you'd like similar comments made about your children then wind your neck in.

Triggers that would make perfect sense. Surely the TA should teach the children who are willing to 'engage' and the teacher should teach the 'disruptive' children as that will require more skill and experience.

Except research shows that children who are taught largely by a TA make less progress than they would make if they were taught by the teacher. So the NIMBY crew would not want that.

Sorry triggles - my iPad changed your name!

TAs take lessons all the time!

And not all children that disrupt classes have SEN.

I will now leave you to fight amongst yourselves about who can be the most PC. Have fun!

Exactly. By saying the TA should be teaching those with difficulties they're basically saying "they don't matter as much, they're already behind, and I want the best for my child (regardless of what your child gets), so we get the teacher, you take the TA."

They're just trying to make it sound more palatable. Sort of "I'm not being horrible, but...."

Clouds - as the majority of children who are excluded from school do have significant recognised sen, it is reasonable to consider that a significant proportion of disruptive children DO have some form of SEN.