To feel disgusted that Elle magazine are touting porn star Sasha Grey as a "feminist"?

[Scarletohello]

So I have seen a lot of porn and Sasha Grey is a very popular porn star. Mainly because she does very extreme stuff, for example the kind of scenes where she is gagged with a man's cock to the extent that she us virtually vomiting. And she acts like she is loving it. One of the quotes in the magazine article from one of her films is, " Rip my fucking holes open". It's the most brutal, mistogynistic, woman hating porn you can possibly experience. And she is talking about it as being liberating and empowering for women. I'm no prude but her stuff sickens me. And now she's written an erotic novel and has an interview in Elle magazine where the cover line is, " writer, actress, feminist,porn star".
Makes me absolutely despair of where we as women have come to if she is being described as a "feminist". She is absolutely everything anti feminist to me. Any thoughts? Also if you have never seen her stuff, prepare to be appauled...

As a society and as parents we should not be allowing the Porn industry to influence a young persons sex life, just as I have not allowed the "stick thin blonde" beauty industry to destroy my DD's self worth. I agree with many points, but I don't think that a woman's behaviour or bad choices between the ages of 18-21 should mean that she can never be described as a Feminist. If you have positive influences, you make good, informed choices, during your growing up stage, we should not write off all those who haven't had that influence, or label them, as I see young women labelled and becoming self full-filling prophecies.

The porn industry shouldn't cease to exist, in all its forms, just because youngsters can find away to access it, that argument could be put forward for horror etc. Being open about sex, relationships and not being in an abusive relationship, which many women still bring their children up in, would make a bigger impact on society than extreme porn not existing, would.

Birdsgottafly

As a society and as parents we should not be allowing the Porn industry to influence a young persons sex life, just as I have not allowed the "stick thin blonde" beauty industry to destroy my DD's self worth.

So who ought to be 'influencing' a young person's sex life? And how do you plan to get young people to listen to these great thinkers?

But what happens to the children who don't have parents carefully counterbalancing negative messages they get
And what happens to the ones who's parents best efforts can't overcome what they are hearing from the media

It's all a bit I'm alright Jack for my tastes.

and as flatpackhamster says

teens are keen to experiment with sex. very keen indeed. that combined with being given the knowledge that used to come with years of sexual experience right at the very beginning is just not good

Binks
I don't think women 'shouldn't engage in these activities' in private or whatever. I do think that normalising extreme sex through mainstream porn harms women. Because many men and women both internalise these depictions of sex and normalise them. It warps a person's sexual development because it normalises things that are not 'normal' (normative) and leads to situations where women are pressured into performing acts that do them harm.

I understand that you feel defensive because you enjoy this sort of sex. But this thread isn't about attacking the choice to partake in extreme sex, it's about whether making extreme violent porn can be compatible with being a feminist, because of the alleged damage which such porn does to women.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay

I don't think women 'shouldn't engage in these activities' in private or whatever. I do think that normalising extreme sex through mainstream porn harms women. Because many men and women both internalise these depictions of sex and normalise them. It warps a person's sexual development because it normalises things that are not 'normal' (normative) and leads to situations where women are pressured into performing acts that do them harm.

What's normal? I think you're on pretty thin ice with that argument. Is lesbian sex 'normal', or gay sex, and who says so? Is violent sex 'extreme', and who judges? Since when did the sisterhood become so expert at deciding what harms and what doesn't?

I used 'normal' in quotation marks and (normative) in brackets to explain what I meant by normal. Normative means the majority or standard behaviour. Lesbian sex and gay sex are not normative, as they are practiced by a minority. That does not mean they are not normal types of sex. Violent sex is certainly extreme IMO, I think that is covered by the definition of extreme sex. Sex which involves bdsm, pain, violence, non consent, urination and defecation, etc etc. they are extreme and non normative sexual practices/kinks. Note that I'm not denying that there exist both men and women who genuinely enjoy them.

My argument is simple, that normalising violent sex harms women, because it leads to situations where women, particularly those who are vulnerable due to age, emotional development or economics, are being pressured into allowing or performing these extreme acts without free and genuine consent. I would be surprised if you disagreed that that happens. You only need to nosy on the relationships board to read hundreds of accounts of women in relationships with extreme porn users who are being choked, raped, violated and coerced into sex acts that they don't want.

it is your job as a parent to give your child a feeling of self worth and respect for others, couple that with a message of equality and you teach your children to set their own boundaries. That then extends into how they conduct all of their relationships. I refer women who have been victims of DV to support groups and their clear message is that women don't have to be victims. Porn is available, openness will help to stop it being used against anyone's will or misused.

Sure, I can try to do that for my own child, but not every parent can or will do that. That's a cop out.

You seem to be making two curious arguments. The first is that merely depicting violent sex in porn normalises it - I would also be inclined to wonder what on earth makes you think the current sexual status quo is in any way 'normal' or (normative). The second is the attempt to imply that the porn is a consequence of the violence within the relationship. It is symptomatic, IMO, and indicative of a particular mindset.

1. depicting violent sex in porn normalises it - yes, I believe it does. When such porn is considered mainstream and is easily accessible it ceases to be a niche product and becomes mainstream.
2. porn is a consequence of the violence within the relationship - did you mean to put it that way round? Violence as a result of porn, yes. Not always, not entirely, but a contributory factor.

It isn't normal as in it is uncommon. But that doesn't make it wrong. Any more than gay sex or eating a banana and chili sandwich is wrong. Bondage (and the like) isn't illegal. You may say it's potentially harmful, but so is gay sex or a disgusting sandwich.

Ffs pull you judegy pants out of you nostrils, has it ever occurred to you "other women are only feminists if they agree with me" types, that some people actually enjoy sex that's on the brutal side.

Not every woman wants to be treated like a precious princess.

Who the fuck are you to tell people how to enjoy sex?
You seriously think you judge a feminist by how far she deep throats?!?

Personally I wouldn't stick a cock in my mouth it's strictly cunt only round here, ergo, I'm a better feminist than you

Surely is more a case of avoiding answering the bigger questions by using the flimsy excuse of 'i can do what i want because im a feminist'?

Henreena - what do you mean by "Not every woman wants to be treated like a precious princess."?

It's the 'precious princess' bit I don't get.

But surely engaging in these sex acts should be restricted to people who actually genuinely really want to do it?

Not because they're very young and it's what their boyfriend has seen and wants to try out?

Isn't it better if people find out what their sexualities are by exploring over time, rather than having more extreme practices presented as just what goes on to people who are just starting to work out what their own sexualities and sexual preferences are? We know that viewing stuff impacts on people - it is a recognised part of grooming for example. If it was harmless then that wouldn't be flagged up, would it.

I wonder what impact the mainstreaming of violent porn has had on women and children who work in the sex industry as well. I don't know if there have been any studies on that.

Sorry didn't put that right.
I mean women and children who work in prostitution, specifically.

Yawn
I don't give a flying fuck where you like to put what. That's not the bloody point! How are you all not understanding?
I've said eleventy billion times on here that I acknowledge that the are women who enjoy this type of sex. Enjoying extreme sex doesn't prevent you from being a feminist. Making violent porn that impacts on women indirectly through normalising violent sex and leading to coercive behaviour prevents you from being a feminist.

O Kay, so every day we read about sexual assault and abuse of women often by "prolific porn users", we know that young women are under masses of sexual pressure, (nspcc reports etc) we know that 2 women a week are murdered by their partners, yet what we need and what we demand is more young women to be exalted in a high street magazine for young girls because they have built a career on extremely violent sex. Riiighttt

Ehric, give it up love

Some women are prepared to defend their own sex lives so comprehensively they don't see the wood for the trees. Introduce any question into it and the hackles rise....ask for consideration of any wider societal influences on the early normalisation of violent sex, and you get accused of limiting women's choices

Not their Nigel, oh no, he's a lovely man. Nothing like all those horrid punters, because after he's roughed me up we have a nice cuppa and a Garibaldi. Oh, and aren't I edgy, not like you other bores.

It's cognitive dissonance at it's most basic, and a waste of time to attempt to puncture it

Just looking out for your blood pressure

Are you permanently rude, AF? Or have you saved all the rage in your life just for me?