to be very suprised at the school letter about Halal meat?

[fromparistoberlin]

opended DS bag and read a letter with a voting slip basically saying

alot of parents have asked for Halal meat (fair enough)
The school dinner providers can only do Halal OR non-Halal (erm we are in London, slightly surpised)

so we either vote for ALL Halal, or non Halal

so basically an ethical dilemna!

Vote A, feel like a bigot

Vote B, feel slightly uncomfortable that something I dont really fully understand is being imposed

I am going to write and say this is a really unfair way to handle it and they should fucking change suppliers, we are in London FFS

nice little ethical mind fuck THANKS school!

Halal is cruel, I'm not a bigot. Also not a vegetarian and would not like that to be forced on DC.

I have asked muslims about fish - some say it can be halal, some say it doesn't matter, so I assume there is varying ideas (a bit like high and low CofE). Not sure if its cultural, sections within the faith, country of origin, converts... But I know two muslims who insists on halal - one with parents from Pakistan, and one white brit CofE convert (N african hubby) who according to DH has some odd ideas about their religion.

If they were to decide that one groups preferences were to be the 'norm' for everyone then would the school also get kosher food (closed plates which have been prepared in a kosher kitchen and blessed), foods that sikhs could eat (not sure of the implications beyond no beef), veggies/vegans, gluten free, low carb... I'm imagining every plate of food different.

I'm veggie and although it can be the 'safest' option when mass catering, I wouldn't want/expect the school to go that route. I'm veggie for animal welfare, health and part religious reasons (its not part of my religion but the whole 'cause no harm to gods creatures' rings true with me). Also the meat industry does not look good (ethics, cruelty, contamination...) And that's all parts of it.

Maybe they should just shove in Quorn and be done with it.

Our school provides both a halal and non halal choice every day for 1.98 (as well as a third veggie option), so don't think it has to be more expensive. (Sometimes the halal choice is totally different; other days it's just the same but with halal meat.) Maybe ask why they can't offer both - it can definitely be done.

How many options do schools usually offer? DSs have meat or veggie option (as I've already said, lots of arab children attend). Some kids bring in lunch but they have doctors notes. His next school does about 4 choices (including gluten free). When I was at school I seem to remember it varied between 'take it or leave it' and two or three mains.

I'd be happy with this as long as it was guaranteed that the meat was stunned before slaughter. That helps to deal with some of the ethical issues as well as helping to create the clear market for pre-stunned meat.

But then it wouldn't be halal Jassy. Islam forbids the stunning of animals before slaughter.

Rosh - is non-halal not cruel then?

Some fish is halal, some isn't. It depends on the type of fish.

Do some people have the idea that farm shops and posh butchers (via farmers) kill the animals themselves?

Because they don't there are laws that prevent this the animal gets sent to the slaughter house the farmer/farm shop pays the slaughter house or abittoir then the farmers collect the carcass who then butcher it ( or sell it to butchers)

Even small holdings do this and households where they rear animals for their own food.

These days you are not allowed to fire a bolt in the animals head yourself

Its all quite confusing then? Who will be responsible at the school to ensure no mishaps or cross-contamination? A hindu colleague will only eat in veggie restaurants 'in case' a spoon is used to stir meat then a veggie dish.

I don't know if eating halal is similar to kosher (what can be eaten with what) but if the school accepts responsibility for providing specialist meals, then they are open to legal action if, for example, pork gelatine is used in a desert made outside and bought in.

Its a can or worms.

Thanks for that crescent - I had no idea. I am not sure if stunning is routinely carried out on halal meat outside the UK though is it? I live in the middle east and I don't think it happens here.

I thought the animal was supposed to be conscious? So stunning isn't exactly 'right' is it? That's one problem - different interpretations within one religious 'wrapper'.

Halal. Objectors can insist their children eat vegetarian lunches, or bring their own.

PETA are hardly paragons of virtue so I wouldn't bother there.

In theory, halal slaughter methods are less cruel than others - anyone who believes mainstream abattoirs are gentle places where animals are calmly helped into the next life, like Digitas for cows, is a little naive.

How strange. The Sunnis I know are the ones that told me that not all fish is halal. They could definitely eat cod though.

There are several possible reasons behind the school doing this. I don't think the link between the pupil premium funding and FSM can be ignored. Our school is desperate to get anyone who qualifies for FSM to sign up even if they continue to bring packed lunches as it entitles the school to more money.

We eat only halal and no processed meat whatsoever. I would love to say we buy organic but we simply can't afford it. We stick to packed lunches, the vegetarian options are pretty crappy and rely on Quorn which we don't eat either (preference not religion). I don't think we would switch to halal school dinners though as I expect it would be poor quality cheap rubbish with a clever marketing leaflet designed to make it look healthy. The Jamie Oliver thing didn't really catch on here!

Can you imagine the uproar if a mainly European/Christian school in a Muslim based country asked for all meat to be NON halal as there were more Christians than Muslims?

That's a different issue though, as Christians can eat Halal meat but Muslims can't eat non-Halal meat.

But I don't like the way it's slaughtered, so ethically I don't agree with it.

Why are people so certain that halal meat is more cruelly produced than any other meat?

How do they think bog standard meat reaches their table?

What do you feel the ethical difference is between halal and non-halal slaughter QOD?

Jenai- why can't the students who only eat Halal rat the vegetarian option?
I agree with QOD