to be very suprised at the school letter about Halal meat?

[fromparistoberlin]

opended DS bag and read a letter with a voting slip basically saying

alot of parents have asked for Halal meat (fair enough)
The school dinner providers can only do Halal OR non-Halal (erm we are in London, slightly surpised)

so we either vote for ALL Halal, or non Halal

so basically an ethical dilemna!

Vote A, feel like a bigot

Vote B, feel slightly uncomfortable that something I dont really fully understand is being imposed

I am going to write and say this is a really unfair way to handle it and they should fucking change suppliers, we are in London FFS

nice little ethical mind fuck THANKS school!

Apparently Sikhs or some of them anyway are prohibited from eating halal meat, but it's not important.

But why is it their own fault and why do you say that they don't have a "proper" religion?

I'm on the fence here (splinters in my bum). I get that its a community school (and in London that can mean a hell of a lot of diversity), so shouldn't cater for one religion, however, if I had peope over for dinner, who I knew only ate halal, I'd do veggie or source halal. I do this, and have been told 'you don't need to do that, we'd eat what you offered (pork aside)'. Half of my family are muslim (some here, some there, some everywhere) but food is never an issue. Some take lunch to work - mainly to save money - and the kids eat school lunches or take packed (if they are picky eaters).

Most meat production is cruel. No one religion or sector of the community has the moral high ground here.

Crap/tainted/cheapo food is the main issue. We need to teach kids what good, healthy food is. Ok so school lunch isn't my kids main source of nutrition but for some kids it is. Its also their chance to try different foods, maybe even new foods. We should be giving them healthy and balanced meals - without processed rubbish. Its not ok to serve a child (or someone in prison, hospital...) a meal that costs pennies. How can it be good food?

Process of slaughter/prep be damned. My main concers is: what's in the 'meat', has it been handled hygenically and is it full of drugs and 'fillers'.

I'm veggie (have been for 25+ years) and have managed in a meat eaters world. I never have asked or expected anyone/anywhere to cater for me and my requirements. When younger I would more than likely have vomited if someone had slipped meat into my meal if I found out (oh the passion of youth) whereas now I know what to look out for but assume that somewhere along the line this must have happened. Its not 'religious conviction' beyond not being happy harming gods creatures) but it started as a very strong ethical belief that killing was wrong.

I was being sarcastic, because the whole hallal for everyone idea is based on the principle that the beliefs of those who want it are more important than those who don't.

The fairest and probably cheapest option is to provide healthy clean food for all and let those who want special arrangements make the special arrangements themselves.

back I see your point.

OK, I get what you mean too now. I don't agree with the halal meat for all approach either, but have no problem with it being provided as an option, as it is at our school.

I would certainly be voting AGAINST Halal for animal welfare reasons! It's absolutely bloody awful (excuse pun) what these people are pushing for in the name of religion. Animal abuse basically.

I'm a meat eater but always go for organic/ethically sourced meat where possible. You need to find out more about Halal before you vote!

And yes, I think it is ridiculous to cater for the minority here. They should make their own arrangements or opt for the vegetarian option.

Non halal meat. Makes my fuckin blood boil.

but your meat is squashed into a truck and taken to an abitoir (sp) and killed stunned with a tazer and the other cows see this they panic and they have to do it quickly as adrenalin can take over, this is for all animals including lovely organic cows , sal

Out of interest, if Muslim children were the majority in the school, would you consider it ridiculous to provide non-halal meat to cater for the non-Muslim minority?

I would imagine in a London or any big city school they majority would be non christian children so Halal would be the majority, maybe they should just provide Halal and those non catered for should go for the veggie option

Schools want as many children as possible to take school meals, for reasons of costs apart from anything else. If they have very low take up from Muslims (the majority of their intake) then of course they'll want to fix that. It's about providing a service that will attract the maximum number of customers at the minimum of cost. In St Ives that may mean that the lone Muslim in the school is out of luck, in Tower Hamlets then the Sikhs or highly selective animal rights enthusiasts get the short straw (the short straw being the choice between vegetarian option or packed lunch).

Non christian isn't just muslim though. We have a range of religions and none at our school. Most is probably catholic.

yes I know moomin but I think if they are suggesting halal at a school then they probably have a minority of Halal meat eaters

So most of the non-Christians are Catholic? Please tell me I misread that!

Just about to say give same moom there all ways seems to be Christian or Muslim presumption, nothing in between.

It frustrates me so much! Religion causes wars or rather men hiding behind religion causes wars, it needs to stay out our community schools.

Oh yes RC is christian I am

crescent and Sal

There are both good and bad abattoirs.

Strangely enough when I was at school a friend's father actually designed and built them.

The ones he built had a lot of measures built in to stop the animals being scared. Things like piping the smell away from holding pens/fields.

Animals entering one at a time.

I have heard both sides of the debate on Halal vs stunning. Personally I think stunning is better, but it has to be stunning that works, with a bolt not a tazer as someone has suggested. If the bolt does not work then a knife to the jugular is probably better.

Does anyone know why animals can't be shot in an abattoir? Surely a bullet in the brain would be the quickest?

Some abattoir have viewing galleries so that if a farmer takes their own animals to slaughter they can watch.

Maybe the school should only serve vegi and fish.

I meant that most kids are our school are catholic! (I do work for the church ).

Moomins. Ok.

I thought I sorted the religious isue yesterday by Zeusifying all the animals?