to be very suprised at the school letter about Halal meat?

[fromparistoberlin]

opended DS bag and read a letter with a voting slip basically saying

alot of parents have asked for Halal meat (fair enough)
The school dinner providers can only do Halal OR non-Halal (erm we are in London, slightly surpised)

so we either vote for ALL Halal, or non Halal

so basically an ethical dilemna!

Vote A, feel like a bigot

Vote B, feel slightly uncomfortable that something I dont really fully understand is being imposed

I am going to write and say this is a really unfair way to handle it and they should fucking change suppliers, we are in London FFS

nice little ethical mind fuck THANKS school!

I think the reason I see the God of the Muslim religion and Christianity as separate is that the religions have a quite different set of beliefs as far as I'm aware so I find it hard to understand how it can be the same God if that makes sense? If it was the same God wouldn't we have the same beliefs as we would both be following that God's wishes? Please correct me if I'm wrong, like I said I'm no expert!!

Islam, Christianity and Judaism : They all believe in the same God despite what the fundamentalists in each faith tell you? I'm sure they all originate from the same place and have LOADS of similarities. Im no expert either Heffalump.

Same God, same Prophets, - muslims believe in the virgin birth and Jesus and his second coming, same stuff like the 10 comandments and being nice to people and stuff. Differences are they dont believe Jesus is god and you dont get saved by believing in him.
I've just been reading a little chart of similarities. And its the same God starting with Abraham, same stories like Jospeh and the coat thing and Egypt and the plagues and the Exodus and all the rest.

Heffalump - I just get the impression that your gut reaction is to be repulsed by Islam and anything to do with it like Halal even though you seem to know very little about it. i think that can fall under prejudice.

Begonia - No I am a bit repulsed by an animal having their throat slit without being stunned first, not by Islam, that is a massive leap and completely unfair. As one of the more informed posters said earlier this only happens with one of the certificates not both, but how am I to know which way it has been killed?? .

And this is why religion has no place in schools. Children should be seen as children and be free to learn rather than their faith defining them as a person before the human being is seen .

I hate religion all it does is create segregation. How quickly did thus turn in to Muslim v Christian under tones on both sides.

I'm not a veggie far from it. I just think it would be a lot easier and healthier and wouldn't be a bad idea due to childhood obesity, like I all ready stated.

Religious schools ~ yes
Community schools ~ no.

Still can't believe people still think its acceptable to serve any kind of religiously prepared food to be given to non believers under the guise that they won't realise what they are eating!! Shocking!!

Every animal that gets eaten gets slaughtered. Full stop. Using the different ways as an excuse is ridiculous.

I thought London schools were halal already.

If I have the choice I would choose nonhalal as I'm not Muslim. I don't mind either way (killing animals is killing animals) but why would I vote for halal if I'm not Muslim? I agree that it is a silly decision for the school to leave up to the parents vote.

What I think schools should do is to decide according to costs of meat and go for the cheapest supplier regardless of whether they are halal or not. If the costs are the same and they have a large number of Muslim students then they should choose halal.

They should also ensure that fish is served often so Muslim children can choose this option if the meat is not halal.

They should also make sure that the vegetarian options are varied with balanced protein as all too often the veggie options are very dull and repetitive.

They should also tell the parents if the food is halal or not! I have worked in schools that served halal and lots of the Muslim kids always choose the veggie option anyway, not sure if the parents were aware it was halal or if they were all just veggie. But the schools weren't very good at communicating this info to the parents.

Forced vegetarian option is no different to a forced meat option. If you are looking at it from an ethical sense. Both are to an extent forcing parents' beliefs onto a child. Only difference is there's no argument by about how an animal was killed with the vege option.

This is school dinners we r talking about. Meat doesn't miraculously turn inedible slop into something amazing.

Less hidden nasties in vege options though....

There are so many people with the mindset that a meal isn't complete unless there is meat on the plate.
I agree with posters that say a better variety of vegetarian options would help towards tackling obesity.

The chances are the animals have been stunned first in the halal process.

If you don't object to eating meat and don't think someone saying a muslim prayer in the general area of the slaughter of the animals will result in your child becoming infected with islam or being poisoned, dying and going to hell for eating meat blessed by the wrong god then just vote for halal meat.

Still can't believe people still think its acceptable to serve any kind of religiously prepared food to be given to non believers under the guise that they won't realise what they are eating!! Shocking!!

If you are a none beliver then you don't believe it to be religious

If you don't believe in any religion then it won't matter. Meat is part of a balanced healthy diet. Let's try getting rid of processed foods and absolute rubbish in schools before we get rid of a main food group?

I say this as an atheist and an omnivore; judging by some of the ignorance displayed on this thread we need an awful lot more good quality RE in schools.

Those who claim stunned meat is 'more ethical' than a quick clean swipe to neck of animal, I would absolutely love to organise a MN educational trip to an abatoir.. perhaps ignorance really is bliss.

As for those who have now learnt that 90% of halal meat in this country is actually stunned meat yet still bleat halal meat is cruel and medieval, well I dont think anything will change your opinions as deep down you hate the fact this country makes special arrangements for muslims, in schools or otherwise. Just my opinion of course, which we are all entitled to right?

I would just like to add, my dc will be going to school with packed lunches for various reasons, especially if there is no Muslim cook in the school kitchen. In Islam if the halal meat is cooked by non-muslims it still has to be supervised by atleast one muslim.

i thought all public services were halal now, hospitals, schools, council canteens.

I bloody well hope not. Sikhs can't eat meat that has been prayed over so no halal or kosher.

I like the suggestion of having just one meat halal. There should always be a vegi option.

The chances are the animals have been stunned first in the halal process.

Don't think it's halal if it is.

Could they do alternate terms? Halal one term non halal the other?

I worked at a college where all the meat was halal, it made sense as the vast majority of students, and many staff were Muslim, at Eid I had 5 classes and about as many students, seemed daft for the college to be open to be honest.

There were vegi options.

But the greasy spoon next to the entrance did a great bacon sandwich.

I think it depends on the makeup of the school, the size and the ages.

In an ideal world there would be:
meat - halal
meat-not halal
meat kosher
vegi
vegan
fish

That's interesting. Our school is 40% and offer a veggie option but no idea if the meat is halal. Would they have to tell us?

ignorance is bliss has never worked for me Chelsea

sock I'm completely a non believer but that doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to a specific religious requirement .. I sent dd to a community where there is a wonderful array of multi cultural influencesI which can only broaden our children's minds. But for me, to start installing one type of religious meal preparation, you have to be available to install all religious meal preparation . Which will cost a fortune and divert money away from much needed educational equipment .

This would have to run across the board too, if one school has it then every community school has to be made available to have it.

Children do not need any more divideds than they all ready have imposed on them by adults. Community schools are for community's not just a little bit more catholic, Jewish , Muslim or ect .. Leave that to the religious schools.

thanks to everyone who posted, reading the range of views has been v helpful

its also interesting that alot of the discussion has focussed on the method of killing, as that was not really the issue for me. V educational.

as someone said:I am uneasy about a non-denominational school (I am assuming it is an ordinary school, not one affiliated to a religion) having catering arrangements put in place to suit any particular religion

i will send a short/calm/measured response urgeing them to explore a less "black and white" stark choice

I am a christian, baptised etc but chose to not do the religious school option, for that reason this issue had upset me in a way that really suprised me

but at the end of the day....when I look at the suffering in the world, if my child ate a halal burger a couple of times a week, well its not the end of the world... neeed to NOT get emotional about it

fromparis I wonder how a Sikh would feel about that though?

From the point of view of a meat eater who cares about animal welfare I find it a bit depressing that so many want to choose the meat on price alone. If they had a vote of less meat but guaranteed humanely raised and slaughtered then I would vote for that.

I agree with posters that say a better variety of vegetarian options would help towards tackling obesity.

meat doesn't make you fat processed shit and too much of it makes you fat