to finally be able to say there has been too much immigration

[moogy1a]

Now that UKIP have made massive gains in local elections,conservatives stating that major changes need to be made and labour admit that they made a big mistake in having an almost open door policy can I finally say this in public without the hysterical accusations of being racist?

Well, unless I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick the whole EU thing allowed EU citizens the right to move freely through member states and settle? Common currency (nearly) and a common passport.

Take that back to the immigration topic that gets everyone riled.

We need immigrants, both professional and unskilled. However unfettered immigration is not a good thing. I have no problem with economic migrants either, they want to work and establish a life within the UK and contribute.

The problem comes with the minority who are (a) disrespectful of our laws (b) operate criminal activities (c) think the Uk is a benefit utopia.

And I know someone is going to pluck some figures out to say (a) (b) and (c) are rare, and I agree they probably are a rare occurrence, but nonetheless they do occur. I could link umpteen news reports to East European prostitution rings, Chinese triads and chain gangs (thinking cockle pickers) and Somali rapists and so forth. Then you have the knock on that they cannot be deported - as I believe they should be because they have not adhered to the laws of this country - because of some Human Rights infraction, usually they have a child with a British born woman, which secured their right to stay in the UK, or some other whimsy - such as the Mulsim rapist who successfully argued against his deportation because he had a tattoo of a semi naked woman and would thus be stoned in his own country.

It is those situations that get people riled, and when you have successive press stories about a particular country, or nationals of a country, or indeed live on the edge of a 'ghetto' style area and you see the youth gangs of those countries re-establishing themselves for lawless purposes - because authority is frightened to say "No! this style of living is wrong, integrate" for fear of being called racist.

I have no issue with anyone who wants to come, work, contribute and enrich my country at all.

Britiain is a migrant population from Romans, to Vikings, to Franks, to Normans, to Huguenots, and in recent history (post WW2) the influx of Jamaicans, Asians, and Poles.

Immigration is what makes Britain vibrant - but it cannot go unfettered.

We are an island, we are sinking under the weight. In the 1600's the population was 4 million, today it is 64 million. That is due to longevity of the population and advances in medcine.

Enjoyingscience, a few thousand foreigners in your narrow field of work does not mean we have to admit 3 million foreigners to staff KFCs and car washes.

Rich countries have the ability to pick and choose the foreigners they want.

And so we ignore corporations not paying taxes and bank bailouts costing trillions and harp on about immigrants taking our jerbs.
The media have done a grand job on people
But, looking locally. Immigrants are here working and paying taxes. Use the fucking taxes on local infrastructure instead of bailing out whatever bank/war/corp is whatever Govt buddy of the month. Then it works.

oh, and dh is an immigrant and Ive been one in his country. Jerb stealing n all. Thats what you get in a global economy.

Just for shits and giggles, perhaps those on the thread who seem to think it's easy to get into the UK as an immigrant can do the UKBA points calculator to see if you'd be eligible were you not lucky enough to be born here.

NB this obviously doesn't apply to EU citizens, which may clarify the debate.

Well it isn't what you get in a global economy. We get to make decisions about what level of immigration we want to have. That doesn't mean there will be no immigration at all or that people will never be able to migrate from Britain and live elsewhere.

Orbis, there are many classes of immigrants.

For instance, it's common among sections of the South Asian community to marry a cousin from 'back home' in Pakistan or Bangladesh. As a result, the visa restrictions for marriage are quite tough, because of this practice, which to most British people in the UK is alien.

Not tough enough to prevent it happening because that would violate people's human rights, but it's more expensive and time-consuming than most would assume, but because of this unfortunate cousin marriage custom, the net result is still a lot of immigration of immigrants who probably would not come near the top of 'most desirable immigrants' surveys in terms of adaptability, English language skills, employment prospects and so on. But there's basically nothing whatsoever we can do, except somehow persuade people to marry within the UK, adapt to British customs (secularize), and so on.

Points-based schemes account for only a small % of immigration to British.

A labour mp on news today said labour had dropped the ball on immigration - politicians know what this ukip vote is about. Councillors are powerless anyway on big issues but this will have an impact on gov policy as the conservatives don't want to
Lose next election

Labour didn't so much drop the ball as invent the ball game.

moogy So it's okay for British Immigrants to contribute to Spains' Economy but it's not alright for Immigrants from other Countries to come and contribute to ours? Is that the sort of thing you mean?...

I'm leaving this conversation now as already see how the thread is turning, all Immigrants are bad, lazy, scroungers or taking our Jobs. [no comment] ~

As opposed to how you would prefer it,Misspixietrix all immigrants are wonderful, all pay taxes,here to escape torture,enhance our cultural landscape(no comment).

wordfactory - not my experience at all actually. Though maybe you're in a different area from where I'm taking about, Yorkshire being the biggest UK county after all!

Personally, if I'm a victim of a crime, I don't care if the perpetrator is British or not. It sucks no matter what.

And given the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals, I'm not sure how relevant it is that some small minority are. Many of them are deported, we just tend to hear about the ridiculous cases where people aren't.

Some interesting tidbits on immigration and crime (LSE again!):

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/28/immigration-impact-crime

Crime in neighbourhoods that have experienced mass immigration from eastern Europe over the past 10 years has fallen significantly, according to research that challenges a widely held view over the impact of foreigners in the UK.

Rates of burglary, vandalism and car theft all dropped following the arrival of migrants from Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and seven other countries after they joined the European Union in 2004. But the opposite was found to be the case in areas that experienced an influx of asylum seekers from the late 1990s onwards, where rates of property crime were "significantly higher". In addition, immigration has no impact on levels of violent crime on British streets, according to the analysis.

Experts from the London School of Economics set out to examine if the common assertion that immigrants cause crime was corroborated by statistics, after noting a "paucity of credible empirical evidence" to support the claim.... Brian Bell, a research fellow at the London School of Economics, said: "The view that foreigners commit more crime is not true. The truth is that immigrants are just like natives: if they have a good job and a good income they don't commit crime."

The findings come days after a report revealed that the UK is becoming more peaceful with rates of violent crime and murder falling more rapidly in the past decade than in any other western European country. The UK Peace Index, produced by the Institute for Economics and Peace, found that violent crime rate fell by a quarter between 2003 and 2012, a period of relatively high immigration.

yes things that's exactly how I'd prefer it . All Immigrants are not wonderful and all Immigrants are not bad. UKIP however suggest different ~

No. The votes which UKIP has received are not evidence of too much immigration, merely that there are many narrow-minde people voting in a scarily ill-informed way.

Immigrants like me pay more than half of the tax take in the UK (because a lot of over remunerated city types are immigrants)
If we all went away, your tax rate would increase.

Immigrants like my less educated cousins pick the vast bulk of your fruit and veg.
Grow it yourself or be willing to pay significant extra for your food.

Immigrants clean hospitals, schools and offices.
Immigrants have significantly lower rates of unemployment than the indigenous population.
Not because they "steal jobs" but because they are not entitled to benefits so get up off their arses.

And remember that the Empire comprised the English being immigrants all over the world and taking jobs money and land from everybody else.

What goes around comes around.

TheHouseofMirth Precisely! ~

"And so we ignore corporations not paying taxes and bank bailouts costing trillions and harp on about immigrants taking our jerbs"

Yawn. No one can mention anything because of Starbucks et al. Getting deeply tedious, now. Benefit reform? What about the big corporations. Immigration? What about the big corporations. Crappy weather? What about the big corporations. Dull,dull,dull.

PS
I have just completed Naturalisation and getting my UK passport.
It has taken five years and cost well over £1000.
The UK paperwork is NOT friendly to immigrants.

are many narrow-minde people voting in a scarily ill-informed way.

All those bloody thickos. How very dare they.

I am almost reluctant to comment again, as this has become so inflamed. The 9 pages of posts are reflective of the deeply held views on all sides, and I suspect that the heated nature of such arguments will never be extinguished. Wherever this debate rears its head there seems to be a reluctance to find middle ground ...on whichever side of the fence one sits, and at every level. People are simply so passionate about the subject and neither "camp" (I searched for a better word and couldn't find one - sorry) seems able to regard the others views as anything other than either "fundamentally prejudiced" or "liberal at all costs". Never the twain shall meet.

I have no idea of the long term answer to achieving a consensus, but I sadly noted Patpig's comment (way up-thread) ".....then the country would change completely".
Actually, Britain has long since changed beyond all recognition from the country I grew up in. Older people (as commented somewhere up-thread ..... I can't locate the post at the moment) do perhaps reflect a less tolerant attitude, may indeed be the "scared generation" .....because the world they are growing old in is not the one they expected to grow old in. The changes of the last 30 years have been more radical than anything since the industrial revolution .... in every sphere, not simply who lives here - what colour they may be - what their religion is - or whether they eat brown bread or white (and when it comes to defining people, you can use the bread difference as happily as any other difference as far as I am concerned - they are all equally idiotic)

What is interesting (and I say this without prejudice of any kind!! ... other than maybe the white bread/brown bread bigotry I hold) is that at no point were the voting populace asked whether they wished to become a multi-cultural society. It occurred as a result of a combination of policies by various political parties. Nor were we asked if we wanted the Channel Tunnel built...or whether flooding the marketplace with cheap goods was a good idea...or whether we wanted more preservatives added into food.

Whichever government we put into power, however long they served, whether we wanted them or not, our world has changed. One may applaud that we are now an m-c nation, or abhor it. One can eat white bread, brown, organic or made from floor sweepings!! Neither attitude changes the situation one iota. We live in the country we live in, and it is the way it is: multi-cultural to the core, and bread choices everywhere you turn.

Mumngran
keep posting.
WE CAN turn this thread.

There are 4 mums I know with kids at my dd school. Husbands in low skill jobs. The mums don't socialise with other parents or attend school functions, dont reply to party invites and two don't speak English. It would help a lot if they tried to join in more. It's an over subscribed school with kids whose parents and grandparents went who can't get in. It does annoy people. Not every immigrant is a high skilled scientist adding £ in taxes.

There is a reason for that good old saying "History always repeats itself".

When there is economic downturn and times are hard it is always easier, (for incompetent governments as well as narrow minded people who refuse to read beyond inflamatory headlines), to blame the "other" who in most cases happen to be immigrants.

Nazism flourished in the time of economic downturn during the 1930s depression and apparently it was all down to Jews and Romas as well as other minorities?!

Those of you supporting UKIP: if you haven't yet, then dig a bit deeper into articles and blogs written on this ghastly group and their views on women, disable people or anyone who is not white British (funnily enough that prat Farage himself is of French descent) . And those of you who have done this research and still support this vile bunch - you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I was rather on the fence on this issue.
Having read some of the posts [rather hurriedly, havent got much time atm], I am coming down in favour of we now have enough immigrants.

Some of the things that posters pro immigration are posting strike me as wrong.

For instance, 1 poster has said there is no evidence for additional pressure on education.
You have got to be joking surely
With so many nationalities languages spoken in schools, just think of the extra resources that alone takes.
And I dont think anyone can say there has been no additional pressures on the NHS either.