to want to kidnap these kids from the park?

[Amykins35]

We went to the park after school today and there was a mum with her friend and their children. She had a child of around 3 strapped into a Pushchair facing away from her and into a bush. He was screaming and crying and absolutely distraught and she was chatting and laughing with her friend like they couldn't even hear him. After we'd been there 10 mins or so he gave up and went to sleep. One of the other mums commented that he'd been crying like that for an hour beforehand. He woke again after a short while and was crying and thrashing about so much he tipped his pushchair over. His mum smacked him, shouted at him for knocking her shopping over and then Parked him further away before resuming her chat.
DD was trying to go on the slide but a baby of 14 months or so was crawling on it. His mum was sitting w

FreudiansSlipper Fri 03-May-13 00:14:41
well it s obvious from your posts op this woman was from a council estate spent money on fags and the children probably have different dads so what do you expect

sterilisation of such people is the only answer

-- I really hope this was sarcasm aimed at the OP rather than an actual comment on the situation.

And I'm quite new to this site, why would someone make up a story to post on here? Does this happen a lot?

If we fed snacks to a tantruming child every time not only is that rewarding the behaviour you would have a very fat child on your hands. Toddlers throw tantrums it's what they do best.

FFS you know what, there ARE shit parents about. There ARE parents that don't care. Why is it every single time a post like this appears people have a reverse judgement contest to see who can find the most outrageous shittybehaviour acceptable.

Sometimes there are no excuses, the parents are just shit.

Not every tantrum, prolonged ones, where you have tried other things.

If you think a 'snack' is a 'treat' frankly you need to address the issues you have with food. Food is not a 'reward' and it is a really unhealthy view to pass on to your Children.

I have a close to 6 year old DS who is slim to skinny and a 2 year old daughter who is equally slim. They have healthy 'snacks' and unhealthy ones sometimes but they never have food 'rewards'.

Over the years I have found there are fewer low-level shitty parents. Somewhere over the past 15 years it seems people are aware that you can't treat dcs like shit and that social services aren't an urban myth.

However I have noticed a few incidents where adults deliberately and very loudly threaten their dcs almost in a 'you just try and say anything' kind of way aimed at the onlooker. So "shut up or I'll smack you in the face", etc etc. Really loud, usually in a supermarket.

I usually do or say something, usually directly to the child, like 'are you ok love'. The bullies hate that. I think more people should.

Yes there are shit parents. And smacking a child and yelling at a child is shit. But on the same note we can't assume every toddler meltdown is the result of abusive neglectful parenting.

Imagine the reverse. " I saw a toddler being fed snack after snack after snack just to keep her quiet"

Or

" a kid was being violent and all the mum did was cuddle him"

If what she saw was so bad then y didn't she do anything about it??? If a kid was being beaten you wouldn't just walk past you would call someone or jump in and try and stop it.

What she saw wasn't great parenting admittedly. But a hysterical toddler in a buggy has happened to all of us.

Oh and Toddlers throw tantrums - yes but IMO and experience some you can minimise before they blow up and if you are a parent that cares about your chid's distress you should try and do this.

Too many parents view their children as adversaries to be ignored, dismissed- it is really depressing.

Yes caffeine I do see what you mean. If it was that bad why didnt she intervene. I have before, and then got a mouthful but the shitty parenting that was happening in front of me did stop.

No it wasnt the worst thing in the world, but a hysterical toddler strapped in screaming, falling asleep through exhaustion, waking up, screaming somemore, must be so so unhappy. Removing them from the situation and just paying them some more attention, maybe go for a walk would just be so much more preferable to ignoring them and then the inevitable smack
And yes I do also wonder what happens if that happens in public.
I do...

I didn't say feed them endless snacks I said perhaps trying one, like an orange is not the end of the world. You seem to suggest food is a reward and the distress for 30 minutes at a bus stop is better. I don't think so.

If I saw someone feeding a child carrot stick after carrot stick I would think they were sensible, had planned their journey properly and considered their child.

My dd's tantrums are always because she's had to go back in the buggy. I can't help what time buses turn up and I can't help the fact that she would also strop at me holding the reigns or stopping her from walking about. Forgive me for thinking that the tantrum in the buggy is a better option than having her run about next to a main road!!!

She's not ignored neglected smacked and yes she does have snacks. But I sure as hell aren't going to feed her constantly cos we could be at that bus stop a while!!!!

But clearly I'm just shit as tantrums are judged merely as sign of abuse.

"If it was that bad why didnt she intervene."

I think when its low level shit parenting its REALLY hard to intervene though, I am heartended by some of the comments here, and I think if I saw hitting I would intervene

But to be honest if I saw that, I would do nothing either, sad

I still cant fucking get over the comments on this thread however, pasted below for peoples reading pleasure:

SUPPORTIVE MUMSNET!

Amykins what support did you offer to this family?

It's not even a funny attempt, sorry.

I believe about a third of this at the most.

So you didnt say anything to the mums or offer help, but you listened to their conversation enough so you could run to MN and talk about them.

well it s obvious from your posts op this woman was from a council estate spent money on fags and the children probably have different dads so what do you expect

OP are you the same smug mum who never watches TV & has the lazy, obese ex who lets your daughter watch DVDs all weekend?

OP, did you see someone giving their child a Fruit Shoot, another eating a Greggs sausage roll and a pit bull roaming the park unattended too?

Taking a child to a park that needs a nap is pretty cruel. It's inconsiderate parenting as you are teasing the child. It is a highly stimulating environment for a child, how the hell are they meant to sleep in this situation? Positioning the buggy so that they are facing the bush is not going to stop them being aware of their environment. Why couldn't the parent get off their arse and push them around a bit to get them off to sleep. It is incredibly unkind and the smack gives a pretty good impression of the shoddy parenting the OP was witnessing!

I dragged my 3yo kicking & screaming to the car yesterday morning because he refused to eat his breakfast nicely. Quick call Social Services. My son can go from happy clappy to screaming melt down in a split second, there isn't time to minimise it. And usually he does this because I've said 'No', the only thing to stop it is for me to give in which isn't a good idea either.

If any of you perfect parents could give me a few pointers I'd be more than grateful

I'm
With you hels I'd love to know how I can stop breathing wrong and setting off my child who incidentally at that point has eastern had a drink been outside had a nap watched tv read a book... Obviously I'm abusive or she wouldn't do it.

You clearly said up thread that you weren't going to reward the tantrums with food. Nobody thinks tantrums are a sign of abuse but someone's reactions to them or lack of reaction to them in the OPs case is IMO an indication of their compassion for their own offspring.

I don't reward with food- point is it happens even if they have just eaten or been doing something nice that was keeping them happy til the split second where all of a sudden.......

Some kids have horrendous tantrums and nothing works to calm them down. Yes some tantrums you can head off but some you can't. My youngest dd has awful tantrums and it can be over something simple like her biscuit breaking in half or she wanted to get on the no 10 bus when we need the 12

Nothing NOTHING will calm her down if she is hellbent on screaming. Occaisionally I can distract but not often and when she goes for it even speaking calmly to her or eye contact will have her kicking and spitting so she just gets on with it. She calms down quicker if I ignore her (sometimes 30 mins)

I always give her a cuddle and a kiss when she calms down though, her little heart is racing and it must really scare them.

Blimey I thought our park was rough, where the hell do you live?

All of that going on in one park, on the same visit? It's almost unbelievable

Inaction is sometimes , in itself, action.

Oh right so are you saying abuse and neglect doesn't go on and that we are all just trying our best? Well that's a fallacy isn't it, nothing to do with 'perfect parenting', some people are really not trying their best, so why pretend that they are. Most people are muddling through but others are abusive.

There are definitely times people can minimise it but they are obsessed with what they think is the 'right way' to be a parent and how they should be 'the boss', they get into unnecessary confrontation ALL of the time with their children. Like I said they see their own children as their adversaries.

I'm not a perfect parent, frankly I don't give a shit if you think that, my opinion is what it is, it just isn't yours, you'll have to get over that I'm afraid.

I agree caffeine my policy is to ignore tantrums however the op said crying which could just mean not having his needs met rather than a tantrum. Also can you say you'd be chatting and laughing while your child is behaving like that? I couldn't. Yes people have talked about when they've had to ignore tantrums but none of them were ever doing what would class as a leisure activity, none of them had much choice with regards to where they were, waiting for a bus, food shopping, there is a difference.

Ghost comments that she hugs her dd not smacks her and that's what makes the difference for me. You can see the parents expression when they care and when they don't, you can see the frustration when they see their child suffering in some way but can't do anything

I never said abuse & neglect don't happen but I don't think you can judge a situation unless you know the full story. In OPs case, do we know that the child didn't have special needs of some kind, we don't know what the parent has already tried, you don't know the mental state of the parent etc.

How the parent reacted in this case (smacking etc) isn't how I'd have reacted but we honestly don't know all the details.

I don't really believe you could hear all of that detail while having 3 children and 2 dogs to look after, and why you couldn't have asked the other kid to me Your dd have a turn

Both my DC have had epic tantrums do have epic tanrums, there is no way I would see strapping them into a buggy, ignoring them and facing them towards a bush in a higly stimulating environment as a clever solution to this. It just isn't, in fact I would suggest the opposite - it is a very stupid solution. If this parent had thought this through (if indeed she has the brain cells to do so) she could have reduced the tantrum to 5 minutes or just held him and calmed him down and you know, showed a very small child some love. In a park there is no safety worries so she could've easily done this.

fromparis I totally understand where you're coming from and it makes perfect sense to me.

I guess I just feel the OP can't have it both ways;

• Either it wasn't neglect/abuse and she chose to read the situation in the worst possible way and came here to judge.

• Or all the conclusions she drew were correct, in which case she didn't act on it and this post isn't helpful at all, is it?

I think this is what often rubs people up the wrong way, the hand wringing "poor children" type of posts from passive people who just come across as rubberneckers.

Disclaimer: Not saying this is necessarily the OP's case, but the whole "want to kidnap these kids" talk actually comes across as pretty flippant to me.