Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

[Hullygully]

Any data (either way) anywhere?

You clearly think your children would lose their individuality through wearing a uniform. I find that very sad indeed. There is nothing nasty about stating that.

"But children are children - let them wear jeans FFS."

What, all of them?

I agree with uniform totally. If my DS was allowed to wear what he liked he would pester me for a load of new tshirts hoodies,trainers and jeans. They won't wear Asda, so don't go there.
As it is, he has one blazer, a load of shirts (I got for £2 each) and a couple of trousers. It does not cost more for uniform.

The school is high achieving and will not allow ties to be worn loose,shirt tucked in, cuffs always buttoned, no tolerance what so ever.

thank you,cumfy

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/toolkit/approaches/school-uniforms

This one analyses loads of studies on uniform. Results are surprising. I am pro uniform as it would seem common sense it would prevent bullying.

I went to a school in the UK without a uniform. Despite that we were (and still are) one of the top performing states in the country (Scotland) and I managed to get two degrees from ancient universities (including the oldest English one). I now work for a very large corporation and we are not expected to wear suits, so far it doesn't seem to have damaged the company.

All the arguments for uniforms are bullshit. We didn't spend a fortune on clothes, we all wore jeans (leggings hadn't been invented as casual wear yet!) and t-shirts and jumpers. Jump forward 20 years and my nieces go to a good state school in London that doesn't have uniforms. They also don't have competitive dressing at their school.

My daughter has to wear a uniform to her primary. I think it encourages gender stereotypes, she came home from school the first day she wore trousers really upset because her friends had told her 'girl's don't wear trousers' despite having worn jeans for years at nursery without comment. The girls at the local secondary all look like trollops with their short skirts that barely cover their bums and their too tight shirts and nasty polyester jackets. Why anyone thinks that's smart heaven knows! Funnily enough when they all go to the local 6th form college they all start looking much better and less sexual in their own casual clothes.

here's a review - it's a bit old (1996) but by a fab author so still good:
www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/uniforms.htm

A good uniform is smart, reduces competitive dressing, makes it easier for parents to get the clothes ready each day, identifies the members of a school, and I think fosters a sense of pride in the school.

I don't like the ubiquitous black-and-white uniforms which came in a few decades ago. They're so boring and dull, and bound to make everyone miserable! Before then, uniforms were different colours which were far jollier and were a better identity for the school. Unlucky if you got the school with a purple-and-orange striped blazer with green spots I guess though

Agree with every word, fish

a few weeks ago I sat through a school assembly where the children were verbally taught to be individuals. There was a whole lecture about how "we all like different things and don't have to be the same, we don't have to wear the same clothes or play the same games, we don't have to do things just because others tell us to do them, we have to think for themselves and decide what we'd like to do"...

That was followed by a picture of a flock of sheep about which the teacher said "don't be sheep. You see how sheep all look like each other? You have to look different, to be individual". At that point I couldn't help but staring with confusion at the 300 identically dressed children, who were ordered to pray on cue....

Interesting experience for all involved.... My children did come home all confused, I have to admit...

themselves in fourth line = ourselves

Quite, twilight

fishandmonkey

^here's a review - it's a bit old (1996) but by a fab author so still good:
www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/uniforms.htm^

This is the guy who believes that competition in schools is a bad thing, isn't it?

That's the same for many things in school twilight, so why pick out uniforms in particular?

"we don't have to play the same games" - except in PE
"we don't have to do things just because others tell us to do them" - except if a teacher asks you to do something
"we have to think for themselves and decide what we'd like to do" - except if you're in a lesson where you're given a specific task

etc.

I think uniforms help to promote individuality of thought. If clothes aren't being used as the default of "self expression" then there's comparitively more emphasis on opinions, debate, writing, speaking, creating.

Think about MN - we can't see each other, we don't know what any of us are wearing, and we're all basically the same font on the same colour screen. But we use our minds and there's so much that's good about MN Talk. I think some of this would be lost if we could see what everyone else looks like.

My old sociology teacher used to say if we suddenly adopted boater hats as part of our uniform, the school would be oversubscribed at the next intake.!

thermal, I did not pick out uniforms. I merely pointed out that it was a very confusing lesson.
I disagree that uniforms promote anything, it's a leftover from other times, just like august holidays, half terms, obsession with exam results etc. But none of these things bother me enough for me to do anything. I do sometimes have complaints about the uniform being uncomfortable but I give a sympathy talk and they soon forget it. The TAs get mostly annoyed as they have to help all the kids in reception and some in Y1 get changed, as the policy won't allow for polo shirts.

There are countries where uniforms are banned and the kids still excel (or not) in every aspect, just like they do in Britain.

I tell you what I wish. I wish there was more choice. It seems to me that those who like uniforms are amply catered for in every degree all the way from sweatshirt and whatever down to blazers and boaters and logoed socks. But there are very few schools left without uniform and I think we are poorer for the fact that those who find non-uniform chiming better with their ideals and beliefs are often unable to choose it. There is room for all kinds of people in our society, and that's a good thing. There is a current push for all schools to have smart uniforms and I don't think it's really doing us any favours. There ought to be room in our system for uniform and non-uniform schools just like faith and non-faith or whatever.

Don't worry about the kids expressing 'individualism' if in a uniform.

You'd be amazed at the wide array of modifications you can carry out to ANY uniform to make it it 'yours'.

I remember from my own school days it was vogue to tie the wrong way around and tuck the loose end away. This made a very thin tie, the smaller the knot the better.

An extension of this was making the actual tie as short as possible too, ether end.

There we have 4 variations (not counting tie lengths in between) just on the tie!

Shoes and Socks were the other 'variable', as were trousers (turn ups or not?)

Nothing wrong with enforcing the discipline of maintaining ones clothing. I would even be so bold as to suggest parents get the little darlings to iron their own uniforms.

Work out how much it may cost over a year, and if they don't trash their uniform give them the surplus cash. A good life lesson if ever there was one... look after your kit.

Include the cost of stationary in it too.

Haberdashery,

Schools without uniform generally turn in to fashion parades. With children who can't afford to wear a different ensemble everyday made to feel a little worthless.

remembering that school uniform rarely goes out of fashion, so a 'thrift shop' or simlar reuse scheme could be established for blazers and other items (even passing on to a sibling), according to Asda you could kt out your child for the year for about the price of a fashionable outfit (footwear, socks, trousers and tops for both uniform and no-uniform).

Even throwing in school scarfs, coats, boaters/headwear, blazers and sports kit is not going to break the bank.

Man Utd Football kit for junior - £30 for the shirt.

A Generic strip would cost about that for the whole thing (less protectve pads and foot wear.

Here it is Hully (via fishandmonkey's link)

[Addendum 2007: Subsequently, a large study, using National Educational Longitudinal Study data, found that uniforms provided absolutely no benefit, either academically or with respect to such variables as absenteeism, behavior, or drug use. See David L. Brunsma and Kerry A. Rockquemore?s report, which appeared in the Sept.-Oct. 1998 issue of the Journal of Educational Research ? volume 92, no. 1, pages 53-62. A local investigation by The Tennessean (published in March 2007) likewise found no difference in suspension or attendance rates between Nashville-area schools with and without uniform policies. Its reporters checked in with Professor Brunsma, who said it remained the case that not a single controlled study has supported the use of uniforms.]

Schools without uniform generally turn in to fashion parades. With children who can't afford to wear a different ensemble everyday made to feel a little worthless.

I haven't found that to be the case, either as a parent or a child. Have you been to a non-uniform school or sent your children to one?

No real sign of one puma ship with clothes when my school had no uniform. In fact, they all dressed very much the same: jeans / trackies, hoodie, t shirt. Very few high fashion items, most wore trousers and very few skirts. Oddly, there became a"uniform" but no one stressed about it.

One puma ship????? Oneupmanship ....although puma is a label they might wear so.....

Honestly - the whole uniform stifles individuality type claims - nonsense!

Ask any teacher and they will tell you that uniform does nothing at all to stifle a child's individuality at any age.

If it did then all children at schools with uniforms with have smart, identical robots for children who never stood up for themselves, who never caused an ounce of trouble, who never broke a rule.....

Hmmm....can't see that happening really?!