Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

[Hullygully]

Any data (either way) anywhere?

limited - I thought it was patently obvious that I was being sarcastic. Obviously it wasn't obvious enough.

Yo MNHQ! Can we have an emoticon for sarcasm?

Just use the wink one.

I am considering doing that. I don't think sarcasm gets picked up ver well at times.

I guessed that about the French LaQueen but I don't know any of them very well.

Italians generally look good but they can look quite samey, like they're in uniform, in fact.

I don't know whether they have school uniforms there. They'd probably like them but there'd be none of our hateful bottle green or royal blue

Oh, silly me mts. Sorry. I must pay more attention to your views in future.

I really respect them.

btw thanks for the tip lazarus

I used once to indicate sarcasm I but got flamed for smiling about a serious matter

Hey MNHQ. I got another emoticon request.

There's always time for sarcasm.

There, and I thought you were agreeing with me MTS.

I didnt say that the British are more judgy. IMO we are more bossy about telling people what to wear and telling people off when they get it wrong.

Any road up, I looked for the OECD rankings and then looked to see which countries had uniforms. So the results for Europe are:

1 Finland no uniform
2 Netherlands no uniform
3 Switzerland no uniform
4 Estonia no uniform
5 Germany no uniform
6 Belgium no uniform
7 Poland uniform
8 Iceland no uniform
9 Norway no uniform
10 UK uniform
11 Denmark no uniform
12 Ireland uniform
13 France no uniform
14 Hungary no uniform
15 Sweden no uniform
16 Portugal no uniform
17 Latvia no uniform
18 Italy no uniform

So if uniform is significant in improving academic performance then god help us if the rest of Europe adopts school uniforms as we will then slip even further down the rankings!

well that table got buggered up by MN!

1 Finland no uniform
2 Netherland no uniform
3 Switzerland no uniform
4 Estonia no uniform
5 Germany no uniform
6 Belgium no uniform
7 Poland uniform
8 Iceland no uniform
9 Norway no uniform
10 UK uniform
11 Denmark no uniform
12 Ireland uniform
13 France no uniform
14 Hungary no uniform
15 Sweden no uniform
16 Portugal no uniform
17 Latvia no uniform
18 Italy no uniform

So if uniform is significant in improving academic performance then god help us if the rest of Europe adopts school uniforms as we will then slip even further down the rankings!

When do Finnish kids start school?

At 6/7 years old.

I, like most Finns, learned to read etc. at 7. It was fine!

Remember a nasty girl laughing at my dungarees in first grade. But if I wasn't wearing them she would just find something else to laugh about- like my (perfectly normal) hair.

Uniform is vile. And my experience of a non uniform primary has been of cheerful attractive scruffiness and quite high academic attainment/

Didn't say it wasn't fine ToysRLuv.

Just indicating there is a little more to it than uniform/no uniform.

Germans start a little later too.

How about a similarly bizarre comparison.

1 Finland Conscription
2 Netherland Recent Conscription (suspended in mainland in 95)
3 Switzerland Conscription
4 Estonia Conscription
5 Germany Very Recent Consription (suspended 2011 - THF (Civil defence org) still going strong with volunteers).
6 Belgium Recent Conscription (ended in 1994).
7 Poland Very No Conscription (ended in 2009)
8 Iceland Never had Conscription - military specialised (more like an aggressive police force really).
9 Norway Conscription
10 UK No Conscription (ended 1960)
11 Denmark Conscription
12 Ireland No Conscription
13 France Recent Conscription (ended 2001)
14 Hungary Recent Conscription (ended 2004)
15 Sweden Very Recent Concription (ended 2010)
16 Portugal Recent Conscription (ended 2004 - but they still have a 'defence day to remind people)
17 Latvia Recent Conscription (ended 2006)
18 Italy Recent Conscription (ended 2005)

Obviously

Conscription = current practice.
Very Recent = last 5 years.
recent last = last 20 years (e within social memory).

We see non of the lower half (except the top slot) do conscription.

But out of the top 10, 4 still practice conscription, 2 have ended it in the psat 5 years and 2 not long after.

Iceland don't practice conscription, and never have (at least not after spliting from Denmark).

Lazarus: I didn't think you disagreed, anyway.

I think conscription in Finland will probably go in about 10 years, or if they join nato before that.

All Scottish schools in the areas I've lived in have uniforms. If you have a uniform with blazers and special skirts eg kilts that can be expensive but otherwise I've not found them that expensive and it saves deciding what to wear.
Many adults have to wear a uniform for work I don't see the big deal in kids wearing one. It seems a minor thing to get worked up about to me.

A lot of kids in the UK start Reception with poor literacy and numeracy skills because of problems at home. Many never catch up and often fall further behind. So, yup, we definitely need to emulate the Finns

Do the Finns have a higher percentage of stay at home parents?

I think so. But not by miles.

It's 'funny' how selective with their data people like to be.

Hong Kong is higher ranked than the UK with regards to literacy and numeracy but the problem is that they have a reputation for being tiger moms so we can't use them to make the case that academic pressure at a young age is bad.

What was that? Finland is higher ranked than us AND their kids start school at 7? Brilliant. Everybody. Look at Finland. Proof that pushing kids too young is bad. Shush. No body is to say anything about Hong Kong.

interesting article about child suicide in Hong Kong.

Suomi teachers are quite good too.

Makes you weep some of the specimens we put in front of British children.

I'm not arguing that we should emulate HK. I am merely making the point that some people choose to select certain highly ranked countries to back up their parenting ideas while ignoring countries that don't.

Basically, Finland does well for various reasons that probably have nothing to do per se with their kids starting school at 6-7