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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"tutoring for grammar school is cheating". AIBU to be fuming at DSIL's attitude?

670 replies

twiceupinarms · 26/04/2013 19:29

namechange coz as much as I don't care if she reads this, I don't want her to know my normal nickname.Angry
I am getting my DD tutored for grammar school. DSIL thinks it's cheating if she can't get in without being tutored and will therefor struggle when she gets there. for fucksake, the exams are not based on school curriculum - it's like being a brilliant footballer but been trialled to get in the team on your ability to tie your laces. fucksake.
Anyone else encountered this attitude?
Oh I can add hypocrisy to the list? Her DD audtitioned to go to Stage Boarding School. Did she do any practice/preparations for the audition? Only 9 lessons a week, every week, for 6 years.
Angry
AIBU to be cross?

OP posts:
TheSecondComing · 27/04/2013 14:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 27/04/2013 14:59

"You don't need bursaries or help from the government or your LEA. You just need a few proactive parents and a teacher or two and you have yourself a 11+ Club."

Except that schools are specifically prohibited from providing 11+ preparation, beyond 2 practice papers. Obviously they do, and nobody reports them because it's not in their best interests to. But if they did, there are sever sanctions. Some schools stick to the letter of the law- some don't. Which adds yet another layer of complication and unfairness!

3littlefrogs · 27/04/2013 15:08

I think it depends.
My DC got into grammar school without tutoring. IMO they didn't need it and I really felt that if they needed tutoring they wouldn't cope once they got there.

Some children in the school had some tutoring, but are naturally bright and have no trouble with the workload.

Some children in the school were tutored from the age of about 7, got into the school, but struggle with everything, are terribly stressed and very unhappy.

TBH, the school is academically outstanding, but crap at pastoral care and has no clue about supporting pupils with any kind of emotional or health problems. Parents are aware of that and put up with it.

You know your child best, OP. Passing the exam is only a very small part of the picture. If you are confident that it is right school for your child, and they will be able to manage the work load and the expectations of the school, then you do whatever you feel is best. It isn't anyone else's business.

MTSgroupie · 27/04/2013 16:10

seeker - are you telling me that the authorities will object to an after school club run by a couple of pro active parents and/or a few teachers donating their time like they do with the football club.and rugby?

comfysofas · 27/04/2013 17:05

A child I know got into grammar with tutoring [ his dad was a primary headmaster] in his tests throughout school he got 3/10 for spelling 4/20 for maths etc etc etc.

He hates grammar as he struggles so much.

FreyaSnow · 27/04/2013 17:28

Grammar schools have never been about educating children with natural ability. They have never claimed to be, and the test providers have never claimed they are testing natural ability.

They are simply testing ability of eleven year olds, which is largely about the formal and informal education the children have been exposed to.

Some children who are generally very able will have weak spots. It is part of the job of grammar schools to help pupils in those areas so they reach their potential, as it is with all schools. The nature of that help with a child with general high ability may be different. They may struggle with essay writing due to lack of practise and poor motor skills, while a child of generally low ability may struggle with basic analytical skills as well. Going to a grammar school does not mean you have to be brilliant at everything and have all level fives. A four could just mean the child had poor science teaching, or has intellect but not the maturity for creative writing.

MTSgroupie · 27/04/2013 18:32

comfy - the college of FE that I attended years ago was in a deprived area. I was studying for three A levels alongside kids who didnt even have 3 O Levels or CSEs. The college wasn't in a position to be choosy.

I mention the above because it sounds like the DC is at such a GS ie they lowered their pass mark in order to fill their student quota.

If so then the DC wasn't screwed by being tutored. I blame the parents for pushing a kid that wasn't academic into a GS and the GS for admitting the kid just to put arses to chairs and to get the funding.

seeker · 27/04/2013 21:41

"seeker - are you telling me that the authorities will object to an after school club run by a couple of pro active parents and/or a few teachers donating their time like they do with the football club.and rugby?"

If it takes place on school premises and if teachers are involved - yes.

ReallyTired · 27/04/2013 21:46

I think an eleven plus club sounds an excellent idea, but I think the teacher who runs it should be paid.

I seriously doult that any pro active parents are going to be wanting to help the competition. A pro active parent wants the grammar school place for THEIR child.

"Brilliant idea Really. Tell the not so low income families that their kids can't get help because they aren't poor enough."

The not so low income families can afford group tutoring. Prehaps 20k is a little low for a cut off. What cut off would you suggest?

I don't think its financially realistic for a school to provide small group tutoring for all children who want to attempt the eleven plus. Primary schools need to concentrate on actually teaching maths and basic literacy.

QOD · 27/04/2013 21:51

I've been told that seeker

LaLaGabby · 27/04/2013 22:03

"Any parent worth their salt would do whatever it takes to get their child a better education?"

Really?

Would you intentionally deceive someone?
Would you commit a crime?
Would you infect a competing child with an illness?
Would you pay a bribe to a headteacher?
Would you perform sexual favours for a headteacher?
Would you commit an act of violence?
Would you steal money from a member of your family?
Would you defraud a charity which helps deprived children?
Would you do something specifically prohibited by your religion?

No? Turns out a child's education is like many other things. People will do certain things, but not what they personally consider to be immoral. The OP's sister considers coaching to be immoral.

ReallyTired · 27/04/2013 22:21

"Any parent worth their salt would do whatever it takes to get their child a better education?"

Lots of perfectly good parents aren't that bothered about which school their child end up at. They are quite happy to send their child to the nearest school and don't worry about results. Often their chidren do turn out well even if they don't go to university.

There is more to life than education. Having good school results makes it easier to get a good job, but it doesn't guarentee anything.

MTSgroupie · 27/04/2013 23:16

LaLa - are you seriously comparing tutoring to theft, bribery, fraud etc ? You have my vote for the stupidest post to this thread

MTSgroupie · 27/04/2013 23:24

seeker - I just googled 11plus school club and I got several 'human interest' hits from various local rags about teachers and parents running clubs at their schools either at lunchtime or after school.

These schools better hope that the suits from their respective LEA don't see the articles eh?

mathanxiety · 28/04/2013 07:10

I would do it. I think your SIL is mistaken. How does she know a child wouldn't respond positively to the challenge that tutoring poses? For many children the one on one attention from a tutor, or being in a grinds class with other motivated children makes all the difference to their confidence. Often if they are stuck with a teacher who has lost interest or sitting with disruptive students in school they are not really focusing. It's hard to tell what is a case of being not too bright from having a bad teacher or being surrounded by disruptive schoolmates who slow the class down.

seeker · 28/04/2013 07:48

That's fine, MT. You know best.

Budgiegirlbob · 28/04/2013 08:30

I seriously doult that any pro active parents are going to be wanting to help the competition. A pro active parent wants the grammar school place for THEIR child.

I agree with this. There is no way that any parent round here would want to tutor another child. Competition for grammars is fierce , with only about 5% of children accepted to grammar, I can't see why any parent would want to increase the competition!

Also the primary school would never allow it. They would barely even discuss with us the option of grammar school, it almost felt like it was a taboo subject, and it was very much left to parents to find out any info regarding them,

MTSgroupie · 28/04/2013 08:42

seeker - You have a history of posting as if your experience in Kent is typical of the whole of the UK. Is this another example?

I mean, I Googled it and there appear to be lots of local rags with stories about 11+ clubs being held at their local schools. Sometimes there are interviews with the HM, sometimes with some talking head from the for-profit organization running it.

Perhaps in future you shouldn't use Google.co.Kent as the source for your postings.

MTSgroupie · 28/04/2013 08:47

Budgie - In my case, once word got around that my DS got in, a number of Year 4/5 parents asked me for help and advice. I obviously wasn't going to tutor their kifs

MTSgroupie · 28/04/2013 08:51

.. (I don't have the time) but I was happy to share tips, sources for free papers etc).

Ok you can argue that I wouldn't have been so forthcoming if their DCs were in direct competition with mine. I probably wouldn't but I like to think that I wouldn't be Machiavelli-like about it.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE · 28/04/2013 08:54

If children were meant to be 'prepped' for these exams, would the school not incorporate it into their curriculum?

Genuine question.

seeker · 28/04/2013 09:02

That's fine, MT. You know best.

Budgiegirlbob · 28/04/2013 09:03

MTS, as it happens, I was quite open about the fact that my DSs were sitting the exam, and was more than happy to offer advice to parents who asked. In fact, one child in the same year as my eldest DS went to the same tutor as DS after I recommend him. I do think that's very different though from offering to tutor a whole group of kids in the same year as DS !

hackmum · 28/04/2013 10:12

"LaLa - are you seriously comparing tutoring to theft, bribery, fraud etc ? You have my vote for the stupidest post to this thread"

Of course she's not. She's simply challenging the statement "Any parent worth their salt would do whatever it takes to get their child a better education?" by pointing out that, actually, they won't. Everyone has limits to what they would do, it's just that some people draw the line in a different place.

Slightly ironic that you've misunderstood a very simple point, yet are calling LaLa "stupid".

MTSgroupie · 28/04/2013 10:15

seeker - feel free to post a link or am I suppose to take your word that you speak for all the LEAs in the Uk?