"tutoring for grammar school is cheating". AIBU to be fuming at DSIL's attitude?

[twiceupinarms]

namechange coz as much as I don't care if she reads this, I don't want her to know my normal nickname.
I am getting my DD tutored for grammar school. DSIL thinks it's cheating if she can't get in without being tutored and will therefor struggle when she gets there. for fucksake, the exams are not based on school curriculum - it's like being a brilliant footballer but been trialled to get in the team on your ability to tie your laces. fucksake.
Anyone else encountered this attitude?
Oh I can add hypocrisy to the list? Her DD audtitioned to go to Stage Boarding School. Did she do any practice/preparations for the audition? Only 9 lessons a week, every week, for 6 years.

AIBU to be cross?

[FrauMoose]

It seems a big leap - of logic? of faith? - to say that grammar school parents care more about their children than those whose children go to other secondary schools in their area.

It may be that these parents do have more invested in their children's academic success. But I wouldn't say that was the same thing as caring. For example, of a high 'investment' but low 'caring' approach, several of my daughter's classmates have been told by their parents for some years now that they are going to be doctors. These teenage girls may not particularly want to be doctors or have any real interest in medical science. It is simply that their parents have decided that this is a high status, well-rewarded job for their intelligent offspring and have done everything they can to propel their children in this direction. Whether their daughters would be happy as doctors is another matter entirely. (NB I believe there is a high drop out rate at medical school. Perhaps this is not surprising?)

[Bonsoir]

"It may be that these parents do have more invested in their children's academic success. But I wouldn't say that was the same thing as caring. For example, of a high 'investment' but low 'caring' approach, several of my daughter's classmates have been told by their parents for some years now that they are going to be doctors."

I think that the distinction between "high caring" and "high investment" parenting is an important one. Ideally, you need caring and investment if DC are to achieve. I know quite a lot of families who are excessively "high investment" but very low on caring and it can produce horrific psychological results - which of course only show up many years down the line when the damage is probably pretty much irreversible.

[wordfactory]

There are of course a few parents who care little for their DC but they seem to be in the minority. Most care deeply. And most are prepared to invest heavily. The class difference though is what there is to invest in terms of economic, cultural and social capital. You can't invest what you don't have!

[Bonsoir]

Up to a point. If you have economic capital, you can purchase cultural capital (music, art, dance, drama lessons, travel, museums, art galleries, monuments, languages etc) that you don't necessarily have yourself. But some of those things also come "for free" supplied by the state - you don't need anything but the impetus to access them for your DC. And you might have economic capital but prefer to buy consumer goods rather than invest in your DCs' cultural capital.

[wordfactory]

True Bonsoir. I am as we speak waiting in a cafe for a friend with almost no economic captital but she has every bit as much (if not more) social and cultural capital than me because she is an artist and a musician and lives in central london! But of course many people live in parts of the country where not much goes on and even here in London many don't access the free stuff!

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

There is only a certain amount of cultural capital that you can access for free. When I'm working a good deal of my income goes towards supporting those sort of extra activities for the DCs, and when I'm not working, as now, I feel it's these things that we miss first and most - travel, seeing theatre, music, and comedy, and DC's participating in dance and music, and other life enriching activities. They may sound like a luxury but I feel lack of access to art, music, and culture can make life much more limited.
We are still carrying on with many things, but some are out of reach for now.

[Bonsoir]

If you cannot access high culture you are doomed to mere survival.

[wordfactory]

There is some very interesting research coming out juggling. The sample is relatively small, but the ouutcomes are interesting about how many people have a lot less cultural and social captial than they think they have. Particularly the traditional middle classes.

[wordfactory]

Was it Aristotle who said that the human condition is to look for meaning in that condition through philosophy, science and art? To not do so is to give up on being human. Interetingly though, the traditional means of pursuing that meaning (opera, classical cooking, poetry ec) are being superceded by new means and it is these new means that provide the most valuable cultural capital.

[Bonsoir]

The veneer of culture is pretty thin on most people!

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Now they are teens/pre-teens there's so much I'd like to take them to ...
Things like residential weekends with exciting stuff going on.
Really need a job ! Teenagers are sooo expensive !

[Xenia]

You could certainly argue about culture and what is "better" than something else and what culture enhances life more than others. Is the working class grandfather, father and son going to football matches on a Saturday a "worse" cultural capital than the 3 generations going to the theatre once a month?

I don't think it has to cost a lot. We do a lot of music at home (I sing every day etc) and that is pretty much free. I remember having so little money as a teenager I was sourcing second hand music shops for scores and I had three, can you imagine it, only three tape cassettes of music. Nowadays you can download just about anything free on the internet and get hold of just about any older book for pennies on line. The museums are free and what you might see in the museums you can view on line on youtube videos and learn probably a lot more than tramping round the museum itself and being forced by your parents to stand by the item in which you have no interest.

However yes teenagers can be expensive particularly if you choose to breed a materialistic one and that is all the more reason women should pick good careers so they can afford what will benefit their children.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Well, I've "bred" one who saves her pennies to buy pressies for her friends (so, about as un-materialistic a teen as you could find) Also a big fan of the local charity shops which she sees as a great green opportunity for re-cycling, and a treasure trove for those birthday gifts too.
And another one who saved his birthday money from DGP's to buy a Nexus7, which he is enjoying a lot. So, not as unusual as DD, but still not really materialistic I'd say.
Thanks for your interesting tips on things to find on-line eg. from museums

• that sounds worth exploring.
  

I think most of us were quite broke as teenagers (t'was the 70's for me)
I guess there are more opportunities today, and it's just life that you can't always explore or afford them all.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Oh, and sorry for my part in slight thread derailment, but we are on page 27 now and how much really can you say about "cheating" by getting a tutor !

• Mind you I wouldn't get one, I'd either help them myself, or DH would, or we'd ask a friend. Green economy !

[Grumpyperson]

If you cannot access high culture you are doomed to mere survival

? I'm just not interested. Or, when I am, the concern about how to get home after a late finishing concert or whatever, puts me off going.

And I have zero interest in opera and poetry. Or indeed tennis, rugby or cricket, though I do like athletics. I rarely go to the theatre or cinema either, I'm not sure that makes me low on cultural capital, it just doesn't interest me.

As far as tutoring is concerned, if you just need to see what the papers are like you can buy them/download them and practice at home, you don't need a tutor. If you need a tutor to actually get through the test I think there's a high chance of struggling with the work once at the school.

[Grumpyperson]

yes teenagers can be expensive particularly if you choose to breed a materialistic one and that is all the more reason women should pick good careers so they can afford what will benefit their children

and even more to the point, can afford things that will benefit them, too. But that's another thread!

[Grumpyperson]

oh for goodness sake I've fallen for a zombie thread AGAIN. Can people PLEASE stop posting on them!

[ethelfleda]

ZOMBIE ZOMBIE ZOMBIE

[dottiedodah]

My son had 2 years of tutoring for his 11 plus!.However failed by a few marks .Went on to do 15 GCSES ,3 A levels, and a Masters degree in Chemistry from a Russell Group University!.I do not think you are being unreasonable here ,many children are tutored ,and it would be unfair to put them in at the deep end with no preparation at all if you can afford it .Some Grammar Schools have years where the pass mark is very high ,and many children in our area (Fairly Affluent town on the South coast)are educated privately at Primary level with the express intention of attending the Grammar School!