"tutoring for grammar school is cheating". AIBU to be fuming at DSIL's attitude?

[twiceupinarms]

namechange coz as much as I don't care if she reads this, I don't want her to know my normal nickname.
I am getting my DD tutored for grammar school. DSIL thinks it's cheating if she can't get in without being tutored and will therefor struggle when she gets there. for fucksake, the exams are not based on school curriculum - it's like being a brilliant footballer but been trialled to get in the team on your ability to tie your laces. fucksake.
Anyone else encountered this attitude?
Oh I can add hypocrisy to the list? Her DD audtitioned to go to Stage Boarding School. Did she do any practice/preparations for the audition? Only 9 lessons a week, every week, for 6 years.

AIBU to be cross?

Or it could be a rejection of comprehensive education, no?

Yes, it could mean either of those things, wordfactory.

Ah well then, I reject the state system.

Comprehensive ed I mean - DD just woken up and trying to sit on keyboard pointing out the colours of emoticons which is a tad distracting. Better go!

Wordfactory, yes, the Sutton Trust doesn't advocate getting rid of grammar schools.

the vast vast majority of DC in the uk do attend comps. And they have done for fifty years. Yet social mobility is at an all time low. I think we can safely say that comprehensive education as the harbinger of social change has been a right royal effing failure!

The failure is not due to the existence of comps but the simultaneous existence of alternatives.

Surely the small number of DC out of the comp system can't have that much of an impact, maths? Especially in areas where there are no GS and no private schools for miles?

There is a perception that one sort of school exists for an elite, be it the wealthy or the 'bright', and exams (or money, or both) sort out who goes where. This perception has been expressed as a positive thing by many on this thread. It is highly unlikely that those who are neither wealthy nor 'bright enough' to get into the elite schools have failed to notice that a two tier system operates and it is also unlikely that they have failed to notice how positively the elite schools are seen. The self-perception of many of those who are left to go to a comp is that their lot is second best. The perception of many on this thread (whose DCs are GS or private school bound) about comps is the same.

Getting in a decent state school involves parents passing the "affording the house prices in the catchment area" test.

God, these threads can be so depressing. Makes it sound like if they don't go to grammar your kids are screwed educationally speaking and will have a crappy second rate education.

You have to ignore it. There are only 164 grammar school, that is a tiny proportion of our education system, and 90% of our DCs are at comprehensives and the top end are doing very well.

But exotic either comprehensives are doing just fine as you say, or they are being fundementally undermined by those who don';t attend as maths would have us believe ... which is it?

Exotic, it's all well and good if you're not n a grammar area. Comprehensives in grammar school areas are a totally different kettle of fish to those in non grammar areas.

Word factory...I would that depends on the area in which the comprehensive is located.

there are none round here. it simply is not an issue and we have excellent comprehensives.

Not comprehensives, academies etc. The schools children go to if they fail the 11plus and their parents aren't rich.

But the fact remains that comprehensives have not positively influenced social mobility even in areas where there are no GSs and hardly anyone uses private schools.

Comprehensives in grammar school areas are a totally different kettle of fish to those in non grammar areas.

Probably because they can't be comprehensives!

I hate the bit about social mobility. It used to be true but they don't stand a chance against tutoring and hell will freeze over before one of these parents talking about 'social mobility' says 'your DC must have the place because they would have done better than mine with the same amount of tutoring'. People ought to stop spouting it. Besides the fact I can't see why the bright child should be offered a place up and out but the less bright 'should know their place and stay there'!!! Maybe they would like to be socially mobile too.

Whether or not a grammar education makes a difference to a child or not is largely irrelevant. As long as these schools exist, parents are free to make a valid choice to use them for whatever reasons they like.

It seems that the main problem for the objectors to grammar schools is the selection process, and the effect it can have on those children who don't pass. But parents aren't obliged to put their child in for the test, even in 11+ areas like Kent and Bucks. Their bright children will still be catered for in the High School.

If parents don't want to risk their child being upset by the 11+, they don't have to enter them for it. It's a choice that parents make. I don't think it's fair for parents to complain about a system that they are willing to use.

I corrected myself a post down exotic.

Where I live there are no Private schools nor Grammar. Our county/next county have them and the catchment just covers my town.
The high schools in this area are all pretty poor/average, no great comps here.
I have always hated the system and feel that a good education in this country is a lottery. Yes there are good and bad schools in all sectors. Even some grammar and private schools are bad. Personally, I don't think you can compare on sector but comparing school to school is useful.

How much does anyone think social mobility can be improved, and how? Not that I think I have any answers, but I wouldn't think that a secondary modern is a very compelling solution. And I also think possibly it's a bit simplistic to think schools can address it all alone: surely the society in which we're discussing any putative mobility taking place is also relevant?

So if grammar schools were universal, and improved social mobility for any very bright but very poor children who got into them (even leaving that one aside for a moment), how does that help the less bright ones? We're not saying 'teach them woodwork with their more woodwork-inclined friends and never let them see anyone clever', surely?

I agree morethan. Grammar schools, just like comprehensives, primary schools, high schools and pre schools are al quite different to one another.

Nit, the 'less bright' ones are helped by the schools they attend enabling them to reach their full academic potential, and by the system offering education that interests and engages them, whether that be in practical subjects or not. Especially now that the school leaving age is being increased. You don't have to take something away from one group of students to cater for another.

The biggest thing that will affect any child's education is the attitude towards education that they are given by their parents. I firmly believe that parental support of education makes an equal, if not bigger, difference to a child's education than a school ever can.

We are lucky enough to live in a country where, while there may be some schools that aren't great, no school is so terrible that a child can't receive a decent level of education. And the schools that aren't great are probably mainly that way because they have a large number of disengaged parents. Parents make all the difference.

Just out of interest, what happens if your child DOESN'T pass,after you've gone to all the trouble of getting them tutored.

Seems to me that it is a lot of stress for a 10-11 year old,that they could do without,especially if they then feel like they've let you down somehow.

Do you send them private or to the nearby comprehensive...how do you cope with the failure?

Well hopefully you've managed to avoid giving your child the impression they are a failure who has let anyone down before they sit the exam.

In a county where next to nobody actually gets a GS place, the odds are that the children will be going to the local comp.

I have told this story several times but it seems fitting here.

My ds1 was allocated the most awful school anybody could imagine, it was scary and dire and I didn't want him to go. He is now 21 and many of his peers are either in prison, army, drug and alcoholics, or dead.
A superhead was called in and the school became a "beacon of success" all knives were gone and police presence scaled down.
My ds1 is not the brightest, but within 6 months had gained 3 levels in science and was awarded a laptop. (other schools got a book token).
He gained 10 GCSE's all C grade. I maintain had he gone to one of the better schools he would have been a number not a person and would never have reached his potential. It worked for him as it did for a few others. You have to work with what you have, life isn't always fair. Instead of thinking woe is me, he worked hard and decided to take the right route. All I can say that thank God ds2 got the nice Faith school because no way would he have fared well there