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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"tutoring for grammar school is cheating". AIBU to be fuming at DSIL's attitude?

670 replies

twiceupinarms · 26/04/2013 19:29

namechange coz as much as I don't care if she reads this, I don't want her to know my normal nickname.Angry
I am getting my DD tutored for grammar school. DSIL thinks it's cheating if she can't get in without being tutored and will therefor struggle when she gets there. for fucksake, the exams are not based on school curriculum - it's like being a brilliant footballer but been trialled to get in the team on your ability to tie your laces. fucksake.
Anyone else encountered this attitude?
Oh I can add hypocrisy to the list? Her DD audtitioned to go to Stage Boarding School. Did she do any practice/preparations for the audition? Only 9 lessons a week, every week, for 6 years.
Angry
AIBU to be cross?

OP posts:
Dereksmalls · 29/04/2013 20:29

At my streamed comp, I don't recall being held back, classes going too slowly and I got the equivalent of As in my O grade (Scottish and am old) and was top of my year in Maths and Physics. Out of interest, is anyone here arguing in favour of grammar schools with children who failed the 11+?

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:29

Another thought which has just struck me. The grammar school supporters are always saying that if children and parents are determined enough they could get to grammar school, despite massive disadvantage, and if they don't it's their parent's fault for not trying hard enough. Does this not also apply to the clever ones? If they try hard enough they should get their A*s- all this stuff about being distracted by the hoi polloi is just making excuses........

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:29

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seeker · 29/04/2013 20:30

" Out of interest, is anyone here arguing in favour of grammar schools with children who failed the 11+?"

I'm arguing against and I have a child who passed- does that count?

OhHullitsOnlyMeYoni · 29/04/2013 20:31

I had the same discussion with 3 friends who went to a grammar the other day over vino. One was tutored and the other 2 (who are local whereas the other was from London) wasn't.
Tutored girl and I were both very Shock that they had apparently not had any practice papers and their parents hadn't even gone over any reading/maths at home with them. Even if I wasn't going to pay a tutor I would want to do something at home to help give a fighting chance.

I am also a little dubious that many people out there who really want kids to go to grammar don't do some sort of extra homework (sure people will now contradict, which is fine) and I personally think it is a bit naive to believe that other kids aren't being trained like rats to grab a space. Kids learn through revision, so what is the problem in a few extras? Not as if the knowledge will just vanish.

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:32

"It's just they're having to share the top-set, with other pupils who probably aren't as able as them, who are a bit slower, who take up more of the teacher's time, who need things explaining 2/3/4 times...

Plus, they're under the same school roof as potentially 100s of other pupils, who really aren't that bothered about their education...who don't really aspire towards university, or a professional career...and who most definitely don't think that doing their homework, or passing exams, or paying attention in class is remotely cool ..."

And this will make a difference how?

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:34

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LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:37

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seeker · 29/04/2013 20:42

laQueen, I honestly don't think that is much of a revelation! Particularly as I have already said it at last twice myself on this thread. But hey ho.

I genuinely think that if the only reason you can come up with for supporting selective education is that it enables able mathematicians to take their A levels early, then I don't think you have much of a case. Top stream kids are top stream kids, whichever school they are at, they work hard, and do well, and it might actually do them some good to see that the children they beat so effortlessly academically can wipe the floor with them at tennis, or art or drama or any of the other non set subjects. There is more to life than maths.

Dereksmalls · 29/04/2013 20:42

Made no difference to me and I don't recall anyone complaining about that when I was at school, those kids weren't in my classes by the time we got down to the serious work. The argument about getting more of the teachers time, I never understood that one either - I always though the slower kids should get more time as they needed it and I didn't

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:43

"Very disingenuous of you seeker if you don't think that rubbing shoulders all day, every day, with peers who smirk at school work, taunt those who do well, and who sneer at aspiring to university - won't have any detrimental effect on a clever pupil."

But you don't. Because you are in the top set. With the other grammar school types.

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:53

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wordfactory · 29/04/2013 20:55

seeker I think you have far too much faith in the comprehensive system.

You've made it the Gold Standard because it's not available to you.

The reality is that many comprehensives do not adequately cater for the very bright. And yet they are positively feted by the powers that be.

My niece's school is a perfect example. Considered a fabulous school. Yet last year the top performing student got 5 A*s.

We all know that if that pupil had been adequately challenged she could have done much better..but it doesn't matter because 97% got five GCSEs so job done.

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:58

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OhHullitsOnlyMeYoni · 29/04/2013 21:02

"with all the other grammar school types" - including your DC?
Why did you put them in a school like this if they are of no benefit whatsoever? It seems you think they are actually damaging your child in some way from the above comment?

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 21:04

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ExcuseTypos · 29/04/2013 21:07

There are some excellent comps. My DDs are lucky to have attended one. It's a small rural school with a sixth form attatched. Last year 3 children went to Oxford. This happens most years. Over half of dd2 year were offered places at RG unis. Not bad for a small sixth form.

I do agree that not all sixth forms are like this. However the answer is to copy the outstanding ones NOT to bring back grammars.

I think the newly introduced OFSTED rules are much stricter and that's a good thing. Coasting comps will be pulled up and I do think this will have a very positive impact on school in general.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 29/04/2013 21:08

Well said, excuse!

exoticfruits · 29/04/2013 21:08

You can mix with those who are not in the same stream! DS was always in lower streams- he is dyslexic. He has a great work ethic and his friends tended to be in the top sets- I don't see why they need to be in different schools.

OhHullitsOnlyMeYoni · 29/04/2013 21:09

Little raw about all of this atm as my grammar friends are basically telling me that if DD isn't bright enough on her own then I should let her go to pot luck selection of 2 good (and massively over subscribed) and 5 bad local schools. The only other option is private, which I can do but then according to the same friends she will be a snob as 'that is what they teach' and her peers will be 'spoilt brats' plus they aren't 'naturally bright, just spoon fed'. I went to an independent so this got my hackles up a bit as you may imagine.
Basically it seems as a mother I just send her off into the mists of primary ed and never help her in any way hoping that pot luck genetics and perhaps a decent teacher or two may, in the unlikely event of no other kids being tutored or sent to private/pre-prep primary schools actually taking the exam that year, enable her to get into a grammar.

seeker · 29/04/2013 21:09

No, I am aware that the comprehensive system is far from perfect. And I am also aware that there are grammar schools which only take the top 2-5%" and they obviously have very little impact on the surrounding schools. I have reservations about children being quite so ivory towered, but I'm not in a position to comment on them.
As I said, the comprehensive system is far from perfect. But the selective system is so awful that it has to be better than that!

And I do find posts saying that grammar school children would somehow be damaged by rubbing shoulders with children like my ds a bit....extreme. Why do you think your children are so fragile that they won't be able to maintain their trajectory outside their bubble? People talk glibly about playing fields being level, and anyone who really wants to get to grammar school could do it, regardless of disadvantage, but somehow standing next to a chav in the lunch queue will knock a level off their child's GCSEs!

exoticfruits · 29/04/2013 21:12

If you take out those who are privately educated, those who go to grammar schools and those who are home educated you are left with around 90% who go to comprehensives.

exoticfruits · 29/04/2013 21:14

Well said seeker! I find it quite offensive that it is thought that those in top sets can't do games with my DS, share a library with him or come to his birthday party- why on earth not?

Dereksmalls · 29/04/2013 21:14

Fuck me, I was friends with some thick kids at school. I should sue them for damaging my academic prospects.

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 21:15

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