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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"tutoring for grammar school is cheating". AIBU to be fuming at DSIL's attitude?

670 replies

twiceupinarms · 26/04/2013 19:29

namechange coz as much as I don't care if she reads this, I don't want her to know my normal nickname.Angry
I am getting my DD tutored for grammar school. DSIL thinks it's cheating if she can't get in without being tutored and will therefor struggle when she gets there. for fucksake, the exams are not based on school curriculum - it's like being a brilliant footballer but been trialled to get in the team on your ability to tie your laces. fucksake.
Anyone else encountered this attitude?
Oh I can add hypocrisy to the list? Her DD audtitioned to go to Stage Boarding School. Did she do any practice/preparations for the audition? Only 9 lessons a week, every week, for 6 years.
Angry
AIBU to be cross?

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 29/04/2013 19:46

What we need is for all comprehensives to be excellent.
I am so pleased that we moved out of an 11+ area.

seeker · 29/04/2013 19:47

"You really don't see why there is a benefit to learning with people that have the same level of ability, and the same attitude to work?"

Yes of course- but I don't see why it would be detrimental for an a*student to be in the same class as an a student. And even the occasional b student might just have a good attitude to work!

CloudsAndTrees · 29/04/2013 19:49

I agree it applies to grammar schools too.

So why not provide the best school for that B to get an A?

Maybe because doing so means a grammar school? Maybe it doesn't, but as parents we don't know that when we make the choice of schools for our children, we choose from what is on offer and what we think will best suit our child. We could be right or we could be wrong, but it's good to have the choice.

The system is not geared to the needs of the top. It is better for all children to be in a school that suits their personality and learning style the best it possibly can. That's why I think it's unfair that there aren't more grammar schools and more grammar places for all the children that would do well with one. There should also be more available for children who simply aren't academic, and who have a high need for more than the average pastoral support.

The fact that grammar schools exist does not stop children who don't attend them from having heir needs met as well.

exoticfruits · 29/04/2013 19:50

Level of ability doesn't always go with attitude to work!

exoticfruits · 29/04/2013 19:50

One thing is for sure-grammar schools won't come back.

CloudsAndTrees · 29/04/2013 19:51

Yes of course- but I don't see why it would be detrimental for an astudent to be in the same class as an a student.*

I don't think that old be detrimental either. That's what happens in grammar schools.

Hazyshades · 29/04/2013 19:52

I think my concern, which never occurred to me before, is that it's so final at 11.

DS is bright but not terribly bothered (he's 6 Grin). I think it will click for him in year 3 or 4 but what if it doesn't? Admittedly he might be not as bright as I think (!) but if he suddenly pulls his finger out in year 7 or 8 it will be too late & he'll already be at the secondary modern.

I was a big supporter of grammar schools (I went to one) but they assume all children develop at the same rate & stay on that curve.

Dereksmalls · 29/04/2013 19:52

I still don't understand what the advantage to to the top set of children in a properly streamed school is to be taken and placed in an entirely seperate school. What is the difference in exam results between that top set in the comp and those in a grammar school?

ExcuseTypos · 29/04/2013 19:53

The top 20% are in the comprehensive-there is nowhere else for them to go-unless private and there is little point if the comprehensives are excellent. agree with you Exotic.

It's the same in our area- all comps and our local one is outstanding.

Dd1 was in set 1 for maths. They were all predicted A*s.

Dd2 was always in set 2 for maths and she was always predicted A/B.

So the top set certainly were the brightest of the bright.

seeker · 29/04/2013 19:57

CloudsandTrees- I may have misunderstood you- but you seem to be saying that there are no A and A*s in comprehensive schools? You aren't saying that, are you?

CloudsAndTrees · 29/04/2013 20:02

It's not all about results.

Our local comp is huge. It's good, the best in the area, but it's huge. The top set and probably the one below that are as good as the grammar, but there are at least six other sets as well.

So while the school is good, it is also so big that the children don't even know the names if every child in their year group. The teachers don't know the names of the majority of children in the school. I don't think that creates an optimal learning environment, and I actually think its detrimental to many children. I don't believe that level of anonymity is good for any secondary age children, but some will do well anyway. But some won't.

CloudsAndTrees · 29/04/2013 20:04

No seeker, I'm not! That would be stupid.

MTSgroupie · 29/04/2013 20:05

I was hoping that this thread wouldn't deteriorate into yet another GS versus comprehensive thread.

As usual, seeker is leading the charge despite her DD going to a GS. Sooooo boring [reaches for HIDE button]

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:07

That's fine, MTS- you know best!

wordfactory · 29/04/2013 20:12

Well my niece attends a comprehensive. It is outstanding.

Last year 275 sat English and 6 got an A*.
5 got an A* in maths.
3 got an A* in history...

I could go on...but it is very plain to me that the very bright are not being served by this school!

JugglingFromHereToThere · 29/04/2013 20:12

As my DDad always used to maddeningly say whilst we were growing up "Life's not fair"
< waves, Hi Dad ! >
Take no notice of SIL
I think it's a strange and rather foolish POV
If your DC's can get in then I take the attitude why would they struggle, and a bit of hard work alongside friends with a good approach to learning will probably do them a lot of good.
Mind you, years ago, I passed the 11+ having never seen anything like the paper we did. But that was the same for most people I expect (certainly in my school) But things are different now. Lots of parents are very competitive about places, and I don't blame them, we were too.

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:12

"No seeker, I'm not! That would be stupid."

Phew! I thought I must have misunderstood!

What do you mean by huge? My dd is at a grammar school with over a 1000 pupils- she certainly doesn't know the names of all the children in her year group. Do most secondary school children?

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:13

Wordfactory- do you know what the intake's like?

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:17

"Why shouldn't that pupil be allowed to progress as fast as they possibly can? They deserve to be in a very similar ability peer group, where they can all progress very swiftly, and stretch themselves as far and as fast, as they wish."

So you perpetuate a system that is unfair, divisive and disadvantages the majority, just so that a handful of very bright mathematicians can do A level maths a couple of years early?

wordfactory · 29/04/2013 20:19

seeker the school is a perfectly nice faith school. The proportion of students on FSM is (according to the inspection report) 'well below average' and the attainment in GCSE is 'well above average.'

What this school does very well is get a large number of its cohort through its GCSE.

What this school does very badly, is challenge its most able students.

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:24

So, LaQueen, in these non selective areas, where are the children who would have gone to grammar school if they were in a selective area?

Or has all their cleverness been rubbed off by the shoulders of the "others"?

LaQueen · 29/04/2013 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 29/04/2013 20:26

Not any more- not now OfSTED look at the attainment of high, middle and low achievers.......

Any school which is happy for its high achievers to get Cs will come a serious cropper!