Why don't they just accept that motorbikes are deathtraps and campaign against people riding them?

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Instead of spending so much time and money going on at car drivers, wouldn't it be better to discourage people from using motorbikes in the first place?

specifically,you have no idea whether the lad who was killed whilst biking would be alive today if he had not been out on his bike that day.Claiming /posting what you just did is rediculous .

In answer to the poster who said the price of the insurance should put bikers off....

I am currently paying the grand total of £5.76 a month for fully comp insurance!!!

That's not actually putting me off but positively encouraging me considering my car insurance is £27.00,!!!

Not really a valid point of view eh?

Lovely to see mums net bikers coming out here. I suggest we have a massive ride out!

Is that my post you are referring to? Because that's not what I wrote.

Ffs, my dad used to take me and my brother out on his bike when we were kids. He taught us how to corner, how to hold on tight. Always wore full leathers and helmets. As an adult I own full leathers and a lid because I ride pillion on my mates bikes. Only once have I felt unsafe, one of my friends took stupid risks, I never rode with him again.

Why should the majority of safe riders be punished for the actions of a few careless riders and more than a few lazy or careless drivers?

I have never, ever seen a non-stationary motorbike that wasn't speeding.

That is absolute first class fucking bullshit. Utter made-up bollocks of the highest order.

Even the normal ones are ridiculously noisy...

Another load of bullshit.

The restrictions on new motorcycles' noise emissions are massively more harsh than those on cars. Are you now going to tell us that every bike has a non-standard exhaust pipe?

Generalising like you have done just makes you come across as extremely thick which perhaps you are.

What is always really telling is going out with a white helmet and hi viz, plod style.

Suddenly many unobservant drivers start using their mirrors and looking. It isn't so much the clothes as the fear that your car licence might be affected. It really sets apart the good drivers from the negligent.

I do think that bikers can scare car drivers unwittingly. Drivers have little idea about what a bike can do and what sort of view bikers have. A motorcyclist can see a lot more of the road, looks further and will plan accordingly. That can terrify drivers who think what a motorcyclist has been taught is safe is dangerous. Much of it is not realising what a motorcyclist can see and do compared to a car.

I do think bikers need to be more sympathetic to drivers in one way - never assume a driver can judge speed. It's hard to do with another car and nearly impossible to do for a motorcycle. So riding a bike, the onus is really on you to make sure that you are doing a speed that the driver expects for the road.

There are certainly people who take pleasure in having noisy exhausts, and spend a lot of money on achieving it. They are of course much more noticable than the less noisy ones. I have no idea what the proportions are. As delivered from the factory the exhaust has to be not too noisy at a specified load and speed (but can be more noisy at others, even if standard).

The noisy ones are very annoying, and where I live (on the South Coast backing on to a road going to the beach) it can be intolerable to sit in the garden if there is a club or some other kind of meet going that way.

I've never seen anyone stopped for having a noisy exhaust but perhaps it does happen.

pinkhalf

it is very odd how car drivers react to bikes.

I am by nature a very quiet, reasonable and unintimidating person, and not a racy or reckless rider. But many car drivers slow down and slink along in the gutter trying to get me to go past them. They have no idea what's inside that bulky jacket and full-face helmet.

PigletJohn,

Yes, I too find this. Drivers can pull right over to get you to overtake. That can be good, but I won't do it until it is safe to do so. Often what they do and when is quite dangerous.

Riding in Europe is amazing compared to the UK. So many of them start on mopeds and scooters that they know what it is like and just let you go. Really nice of them and they have clear mirrors.

oh and just another thought for you lot.what about the milions of pounds bikers raise for various charitys every year??? in my life i have done over 40 egg runs and toy runs taking easter eggs and toys to terminally sick kids in hospitals.we raise thousands of pounds for air ambulances.we raise thousands more for cancer charitys.and how many funerals of car drivers do you see a line of over 100 cars at to show respect NONE!!! we respect each other. i have done over 20 runs to collect money for animal shelters and raise again thousands of pounds.the saying "DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOUVE TRIED IT" comes to mind.oh and for the ones who said they will never allow their child on a bike well heres a thought for you!! my dad god rest him said too me when i was 6 i couldnt have a bike well by 8 i had my first off road bike and by 16 my first road bike!! when i was 16 he said i wasnt allowed to have a tattoo well i now have my whole back done both my thighs and both my arms.if you tell a child no you cant do that or have that they want it even more and most will just go out and do it.
so what does that make me a heavily tattooed bike riding moron ????? well i chalenge you to come to my town and see if you can spot me cos my bikes and my tattoos dont change me as a person i would be the same with or without!!!!!!!!!!!!! i work hard earn my money and have the right to do what the hell i like!!!! oh and for your information the goverment has changed the laws regarding bikes you now have to do a four part course to get your licence and its not damn easy like the feckin car test.also the reason we can ride on L plates alone is that as a learner on a 125 your not allowed to carry passengers anymore!!!!!!! not that i take passengers anyway!!!!. try getting your fact straight before making sweeping statements.statistics prove that at least 80% of accidents between cars and bikes are caused by the car drivers not paying attention.and instead messing about with other stuff.if they made the car test into learning to drive and not just learning how to pass a test you lot might have a better idea.when i passed my car test in 2005 i had 3hrs of lessons and then went for my test and passed first time that was because ive been on the road since i was 16 and had many years experience and knew what i was doing.but i could then go out and drive any car i wanted that could do any speed.with bikes when you pass your test your restricted to a lower cc for two years!!!!!!!!!!
DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll admit that many bikers scare the bejesus out of me. I drive a specialised vehicle, and most bikers simply don't realise that they are actually below the level of my windows. When they are going to the front of the queue and sitting right next to my bonnet, I can barely see them, and it's worse at night if they don't have high vis on.

A semi trailer truck driver friend of mine hit a biker when he pulled forwards and stopped in front of his truck at a set of traffic lights. When the lights changed, his motorcycle stalled, and my friend had no idea he was even there and went over the top of him. Fortunately, he had a dashboard camera, and when it was played back, at no point could you even see the biker moving forward and in front of the truck. It ruined his life though, and he hasn't been able to get behind the wheel of any vehicle since, it caused him such distress and he's lost his livelihood because of it.

I am exceptionally careful when driving, and haven't had an accident in nearly twenty years of driving, but the onus shouldn't only be on me. Other road users need to be aware of whether they are visible to other road users, regardless of what people are driving.

When I lived in London it was cheaper to buy, insure and MOT my bike than it was to buy a travel card.

And I could get into work when the tube was on strike.

Oh and I could park a bike at work, not a car.

everyone should be responsible for for their own actions.i for one when i go to the front of the traffic pull far ahead of the vehicle behind me so they can see me!!.i have had cars purposly close the gap as im filtering to stop me!!! nearly bringing me off my bike"THEY WERE NOT CHANGING LANE AS THEY HAD NOWHERE TO GO"" they just didnt want me getting past them.i had a car driver pull out of a junction and then stop in front of me when i was less than 6ft away from him and then he lied to the police and told them i was speeding.to which the police said i couldnt have been doing more than 20mph as i didnt even go over to the other side of the car.if i had indeed been doing the 60mph he claimed i was my body would have gone over the bonnet and carried on for at least 200yds.he then admitted he was lying and that it was his fault not only did he not see me but didnt even see the lorry coming the other way till it was too late and thats why he had to stop in the middle of the road!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only a car driver would make a stupid comment like that.

Everyone has responsibility for themselves and the people around them on the road. Riders are no more dangerous than car drivers.

Oooooh ZZR my first bike was a ZZR.

lol ive had four zzr1100,s and a zzr1400 and i now ride a triumph speed triple!!! and im a woman and i ride as good as anyoneand i have never caused an accident in my life and never even caused a near miss!!!!!!!!!!! i take risks yeah but calculated ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BIKES ARE NOT DANGEROUS ITS THE PEOPLE WHO RIDE THEM!!!!
as the saying goes " GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zzr can you calm down a bit, please - you might be right but you're making people think bikers are all nuts and I for one am not.

Yes ZZR, not exactly providing us with the image of a responsible, educated, well meaning bike rider with those posts. Spelling, grammar and punctuation go a long way towards promoting an effective argument.

And give your exclamation key a break. What has it ever done to you?

Motorbikes are not dangerous.
Cars are not dangerous.
Idiots and bad drivers are dangerous.

The reason the death/injury rates are so high are because on a bike you are obviously going to be injured worse in an accident than someone in the protective shell of a car.

Over 70% of bike accidents are caused by, and the fault of car/lorry drivers.

45% of all bike accidents are caused because a car/lorry driver not looking properly.
30% of bike accidents are due to a car/lorry driver believing they have right of way over a bike (where they wouldn't if it was a car)
Only 10% of bike accidents are caused by loss of control/speeding.
15% are due to overtaking collisions.

I have been riding motorbikes for 12 years, I have has two accident in that time.
The first was caused by a woman taking on the phone who wasn't looking didn't see me when she pulled out.
The second was caused by a man who decided to overtake someone when I was coming in the other direction, he figured he would have time to overtake as I could get out of his way.

The most dangerous thing about being a motorbike rider is idiot car driver and that is a proven fact.

Also explicitly linking bike control with gun control is not going to win you many friends on a UK website Orla. Starting to think zzr might be the OP in a particularly cunning disguise .

'but their harm was deemed to outweigh their benefits'

OP - yes, that's probably the case with guns.

It's not the case, so far, with bikes. That's probably the answer to your original question tbh.

im sorry i thought we were all free thinking??? so its ok for all these no knowledge idiots on here to slag us all off but we are not allowed to defend ourselves well im sorry but i am very feckin angry!!!! i notice that the ijit that started the thread has hardly had anything to say ??? well if you set off a bomb expect the aftermath!!!!!!!!! and for your information i am not nuts and my threads do not make me seem nuts just angry and pissed off.but then its just another case of people telling other people what to do and how to behave!!!!!!!!!!!! and i am right you show me one bike that can start itself go out for a ride and kill someone??? go on show me cos you and nobody else can.A TOOL IS ONLY AS DANGEROUS AS THE PERSON WEILDING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I left this thread yesterday as it was going a bit weird. I see it's all going swingingly well now.

You are more likely to be hurt on a bike than in a car. No question. And more likely to be hurt badly.

Squabbling over blame won't change that.

Agree piglet. The 30% of bike accidents that are not caused by other road users (taking WAE's figures on trust) would still make it a load more dangerous than cars, (which are a load more dangerous than trains, commercial planes and buses).

Worth restricting on that basis? No, because bikers normally only harm themselves, and because it's an efficient means of transport for those who are willing to take the risks. As a pedestrian I certainly don't want to see all the bikers forced into cars or the Northern Line. Compulsory helmets and frequent campaigns to educate all road users seems the sensible compromise, which is why it's the law.