Why don't they just accept that motorbikes are deathtraps and campaign against people riding them?

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Instead of spending so much time and money going on at car drivers, wouldn't it be better to discourage people from using motorbikes in the first place?

Hell, no one needs to eat biscuits or drink wine, both of which can be classed as or lead to 'risky behaviour'. But we do.

It's very much like the cyclist thing. As some cyclists ride badly and without consideration, then all cyclists get judged. Even the saintly majority, who get sick of having to allow for v bad driving standards. But that's worth a few other threads!!

Has anybody linked fantastic safety video yet?

No one needs to ride a motorbike.

Nope.

And no one needs to ride a horse;
Or smoke a cigarette;
Or drink wine;
Or skydive;
Or dive with sharks;
Or drive a racing car;
Or own a gun;
Or eat refined sugar.

No one needs to sew or cook in the home!
Look at the horrible accidents that occur with knives and pins and scissors and boiling water. BAN IT NOW!

Let's have state approved food and clothing from Tesco Asda the state approved outlet.

But what do they need "protecting" from? You in your car!

Roads are for everyone not just those in metal shells.

GoshAnneGorilla

A horse will not protect the rider in an accident (possibly causing additional injury or damage).
No one needs to ride a horse.
There are so many horse related fatalities and injuries.

The only conclusion must be to ban horses.

If you're going to talk about need, I'm going to start quoting Maslow.

It's the yoofs on mopeds wearing shorts and t-shirts and riding next to each other and trying to race that scare me gosh
suited and booted and riding sensibly in itself isn't dangerous, nor is the bike. It's the person on the bike (or in the car) that makes them (the car or the bike) dangerous.

I agree with blacks DH, there are 2 types of bikers, unfortunately it's the twats that take risks that are remembered.

well going to school in america is deemed as dangerous and Where as some people would rather the bullets were taken away, in america they want the children to wear bullet proof uniforms

thanks katy

this was the one I was thinking of

"Fatal accidents often involve the motorcycle running off the road (41% of fatalities). These are often late at night, weekend crashes involving a drunken motorcyclist (Preusser et al 1995)."

though it looks out of date by now. I can't see the numbers for deaths per 100,000 miles but it shocked me when I did.

(I am not anti-biker, but I am anti-idiot)

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"

NorthernLurker

That's a really good video, not seen that one before. I'm quite fond of too.

Roads aren't a racetrack or personal playground though are they.

And SOME car drivers/bikers/cyclists/etc treat them as though they are, and that is dangerous to everyone else who is just trying to get from A to B as safely as possible.

Every road user needs to take responsibility for making sure they use the road as safely, considerately, and appropriately as possible, and for avoiding taking unnecessary risks.

That 41% of fatalities stat is fairly meaningless on its own though. What % of car fatalities are from cars going off the road/into trees etc? Must be a fair number.

YANBU. Every time I see one of those 'Think Bike' posters I think 'fine, but how about bikers try respecting the speed limit and stop weaving in and out of traffic like loons'. I have never, ever seen a non-stationary motorbike that wasn't speeding. They don't get caught by speed cameras designed to flash front registration plates so they flout the law. Even the normal ones are ridiculously noisy and those nasty moped things with exhausts that sound like a wasp nest are awful and wake up my baby every night (we live on a main road, no getting away from it). I could go on but my blood pressure is unstable :o

The fact that injuries to/deaths of bikers is out of proportion to their numbers is due to the fact that they are much more vulnerable than car drivers. You misjudge a bend in the road doing 30 and you might write off your car and be shook up with a bit of whiplash, but on a bike you could come off and be seriously injured or dead. That doesn't mean bikers are more accident prone than car drivers, it just means they're more likely to get hurt or killed when involved with an accident.

Most accidents involving bikers involved other cars. I haven't ridden for a few years, but when I was the only near misses I had were once when I hit a patch of diesel on a road, and many, many times when car users failed to see me and pulled out in front of me at junctions (and yes I was obeying the speed limit and wearing high-viz clothing).

Most bikers ride defensively - which means they expect car drivers not to see them and are therefore very cautious and ready to react. IMO a course of CBT would do many many car drivers the world of good and do a lot to reduce the number of accidents.

A small number of bikers ride like idiots. A far higher proportion of car drivers are so inobservant that they shouldn't be allowed on the road at all.

You are being totally unreasonable - as in all things, there are good sensible riders and those who take stupid risks. You cannot lump them together.

My DH rides a motorbike - has done since aged 18. He has had 3 accidents - 2 were road conditions (ice and diesel on the road) the another was a car jumping a red light (luckily only the bike was damaged) He is vulnerable and that scares me, but more from other road users inattention.

We also know several traffic policemen who are avid bikers...

Has anyone mentioned how much cheaper motorbikes are to run and insure for people under 25?
That was a key reason for friends I had as a student who rode bikes. Even more so now that car insurance is astronomical for younger drivers.

SMIDSY

Grrrrr.

"SMIDSY"
"Well learn how to use your bloody mirrors then"

Isn't it my job to protect my baby?
What if your baby is 18 years old.
It really doesn't matter whose fault it was when the boy is dead.
I knew two young men who were killed in motor bike accidents before I had children. 20+ years ago in fact.
I never forget them and what they would have been doing now. I see one of their mothers every day. he was her only child and he was 22.He would be alive if had not ridden a motor bike, simple as that.

But accidents happen. If you are saying that a young man dies because he is riding a motorbike irresponsibly, then who is to say that if the motorbike wasn't available he wouldn't then drive a car badly and hit a tree, or indulge in some other type of risk taking behaviour?

It is not, nor will it ever be a simple argument.

But when you come round a bend on a notoriously dangerous road, doing the recommended speed for that bend, and there's a bike going considerably faster coming towards you on your side of the road as they overtake the number 35 bus...? Because that has happened to me. And it was scary and I had to pull over and calm down afterwards because I was shaking, because I thought my car with me at the wheel was going to kill someone through no fault of my own.

The biker hardly slowed at all, just zoomed off having had a close shave with both my car and the bus.

I'm scared of driving on that road at all now. I am scared of being in that situation and seeing it unfold and being unable to prevent an accident. I have to do it anyway and I tend to crawl round the bends which of course pisses off whoever is behind me so I feel like I can't win and will take a 10 mile detour to avoid that stretch when I have the time.

Seems reasonable, debz....