To think that this Reverand is rude?

[PrettyKitty1986]

Df thinks IABU but I actually feel quite pissed off ATM.
So-we are getting married next year. We want to get married on a Sunday, in a church that is not our parish church but one that has family connections.
I emailed the Reverand to enquire about the date and ask if he would marry us (we were told by the Parish secretary to email not phone/call in). I got a reply the next day, saying that Sundays were 'not the best day for weddings as the clergy are busy and parishioners who need to attend may have family commitments'. He then went on to ask for details of the qualifying connection that would allow us to marry there so that we could discuss it further.
I emailed back later that day with details of the connection (df's grandparents marrying there) and also asked if there was any time of day we could marry on a Sunday that would be less inconvenient and thus allow us to marry on a Sunday.
I waited for a reply for a full week and nothing.
So, I forwarded the email again, and just said I wanted to check he had received it as I had n't yet had a reply.
He sent an email back saying (word for word) 'I have received your email but it is not quite to the top of my list. Regards'.
That was a week ago...and nothing since.

AIBU to think he's being 'off'? It's now been nearly a month since my first email and we're at risk of losing the provisional booking we have for our venue as we still don't know if he will marry us on that date.

Also, where do I go from here? What can I email him now? Just to stress also, I have been impeccably polite in all emails...I know that marrying in this church is a privelage not a right, but it is very special to df and I really want to be able to marry there for him...so want to move things along but not risk pissing this Reverand off!

Sorry it's long!

[IsItMeOr]

OP, I think you have had your YABU pretty comprehensively now.

You seem to be over-analysing this. Understandably, as it is a big deal to you.

But the Reverend is just saying that he hasn't had a chance to give proper consideration to your 2nd email yet.

And I would say that you should be thinking about a Plan B, as it doesn't sound like what you want is going to happen on the day you want at this particular church.

And try to calm down - it's the marriage that's important.

[Patchouli]

I don't think a week was very long to give him to see if he can sort out staffing your wedding.
Bet you wish you hadn't been so pushy now.

It sounds like some of the parishioners might know the family of your DF though, so there's still hope.

[FairPhyllis]

Good point Egusta - he might well have more than one church to worry about!

Even if there are not a lot of weddings there, there may well be a lot of funerals

Cheer up OP. If your DF's family are known in the parish and he lived and worshipped there, there is actually a pretty good chance of you being able to marry there. You just might not get the date you want.

[RevoltingPeasant]

This isn't in any way intended to be offensive, but as a non-CofE person - I don't really get the thinking in many of these posts.

Would someone mind explaining?

I thought CofE attendances were on the decline and that a vicar would be keen to marry a regular churchgoer. Also, the whole 'it's totally up to him if he marries you' thing - is it really just his decision? Does that mean Anglicans aren't guaranteed a church wedding if their local vicar takes against them?

It just seems like everyone thinks this chap would be doing the OP a massive favour. Would he?

[Toadinthehole]

OP, it's reasonable to assume you aren't a churchgoer because-

1. most people aren't, and you haven't said you are.
   
2. you don't seem to have thought about what actually happens in a church building on a Sunday.
   

So that's two things you're being U about. You've had your answer and sound as if you need to relax with a glass of wine.

[LaVolcan]

He isn't their local vicar. They would need to live in his parish, or be regular worshippers at the Church.

[NorksAreMessy]

AIBU?

Yes

No I am not

[interalia]

Revolting, I have just done a bit of googling. I used to think that the vicar had a lot of discretion about who he marries but the Church of England website says this www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/weddings.aspx

This doesn't really square with what I've picked up from various vicars but guess I'm wrong...
Although there can be a significant problem if you're divorced - vicars are definitely allowed to say no to marrying divorced people and, when gay marriage comes in, they will be allowed to say no to marrying gay people. However c of e is a broad church, so lots of vicars won't mind.

[Toadinthehole]

Revolting-

Weddings aren't evangelistic events and should not be treated as such.

Local parish churches are err.. for the local parish, not for those who live in some other parish.

[RevoltingPeasant]

Right, interesting interalia. Thanks.

toad I assumed the CofE was a national organisation. Obviously wrong. I don't think of weddings as evangelising but I would've assumed a minister would be keen to encourage regular worshippers rather than saying 'you're not a priority'. It seems shortsighted on the face of it, but it's not something I know much about, clearly.

[BackforGood]

OP, our Church averages just one or two weddings A YEAR, but our minister wouldn't just agree to marry people on any date until she'd met with the bride and groom and talked at some length with them about what they wanted and why they wanted to be married in our church when they didn't attend regularly.
I suspect that might be something to do with the fact the Vicar could send a 2min reply to your follow up e-mail fairly quickly, but hasn't yet been able to make the time to compose a fuller reply to your first (second from the start) one. Also things like checking if organist and other support were available.

[Rockinhippy]

Personally I think it was meant literally - not, I know who you are & remember what you want & you are not important, but more - I am behind on my work & have a long list that I am working through & your email reply is not literally at the top of my list of priorities.

I do also agree that he has tried to politely let you know that Sunday really isn't on, rather than a blunt no, he's given you reasons & hoped you would be polite & thoughtful enough knowing those very valid reasons not to push it & accept that he can't really do Sunday, its possible he's taken your ignoring his advice on that as selfish & a bit bridezilla, your best bet would be to change the day -

I just don't get how your guests can get there for a Sunday, but not on a Saturday for example, I expect the Reverend can't either & your DF is right, they probably are lovely people, who just don't get why you are pushing it - if you want to salvage this & get a better response, you really need to apologise for asking for something unreasonable & explain your reasons for wanting the wedding there - for your DFs sake etc & offer to change the day if it helps & if there genuinely are very valid reasons why only Sunday works for your guests, explain that too & throw it on his mercy, chances are if it can be done, for genuine reasons, he will find away to accommodate you - if it can't, or if your reasons are as lightweight as they sound, you are going to have to back down, or risk looking a major bridezilla & not being taken seriously

Good luck

[AberdeenAngusina]

You wouldn't be able to marry at my church on a Sunday - there's the pre-morning service choir practice, the morning service and the after-service coffee, and then the church music group have their weekly practice. The vicar visits various old peoples homes in rotation, accompanied by a few members of the congregation, and carries out services there in the afternoon. Then there's the Youth service at night, which finishes at 8.30pm. There just isn't any point in a Sunday when both church and vicar are available.

[Helltotheno]

Look take the hint. The man was just too polite to tell you to bog off. He's already told you no!

[LeoandBoosmum]

Damage limitation...

If you really want to marry there, I would give it a little longer and fire off another email. In this email I would acknowledge that he must be very busy and that you understand this. I would apologise for having pushed for your wedding to be on a Sunday when this is a day that the vicar and wardens who would have to be in attendance are very busy. I would explain that you had requested a Sunday as this appeared to be the day when most loved ones and friends could travel and attend. I would state that you are very keen to marry in the church (explain other connections you failed to mention in the original email) and say that you would be grateful if he could marry you on a Saturday as you now understand a Sunday would be impossible to accommodate *ime of the CofE you are not going to get a Sunday wedding unless there are exceptional circumstances...and there aren't). Don't mention fitting in with a reception venue!
Please don't get defensive but do you and your DF regularly worship in a CofE church? I have some sympathy with vicars - especially those who are in pretty churches - who have people (who they've never seen before) approach for a wedding (and who they don't see again afterwards...until maybe the first child is born and they want a baptism) simply because they want a beautiful building with nice grounds so the photos look pretty! They probably get fed up with people quoting highly tenuous links in order to get what they want... It is a little hypocritical and smells of 'using' the church tbh
I 'm just trying to be frank. You said that we have no idea if you are a church attender but I honestly would have thought that anyone who knows anything about church life would know that a Sunday wedding would be virtually unheard of. I have been CofE for years and never in my life have I heard of a Sunday wedding or been invited to one (in a church), nor a funeral for that matter, and was quite surprised by others here who have!
Sunday is normally centred around services (as others have said here, some vicars are spreading themselves across three churches on any given Sunday). Consider also that many vicars also work Saturdays (and do weddings on Saturdays usually) and that those who have wives, children or grandchildren (who work, attend school etc) may only have an opportunity for real family time on Sundays (in between services).
I don't think it was unreasonable for you to have asked for a Sunday wedding (in ignorance) but you were unreasonable to push for one in a second email. In your shoes, I would not have sent that second email. You didn't pick up on the fact that in that first email the vicar was politely trying to tell you 'no chance' for a Sunday wedding.
If the reception venue is more important to you (and it needs to be a Sunday) why not just pursue a wedding in a registry office?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I think he was telling you "No". But look on the bright side: he has given you the perfect out!

OP, you can now arrange your wedding in a less rural, PITA place.

[FairPhyllis]

Revolting They have the automatic right to marry (by banns) in the geographical parish where they live (or where one of them lives), regardless of whether they are regular worshippers or not (I don't get the impression that they are - sorry if that's wrong). It is because neither of them live in the parish where they want to marry that things are different - the vicar of that parish's primary care is for the people who live in it, not for anybody who randomly wants a wedding there.

OP and DF do not have the automatic right to marry in ye olde ancestral church unless they can prove a qualifying connection with the parish, which it sounds like they do have - GPs marriage. But the burden is on them to prove that to the vicar's satisfaction. Once he is satisfied with that they will be able to get married there. But he is not obliged to give them the exact date they want. And he would be doing them a massive favour to allow a Sunday wedding, believe me.

In the C of E (yes I know OP is in Wales), prior to 2008 it would not have been possible for OP to do what she wants except by Special Licence from the Archbishop of C. These were not granted in many cases - usually they are used for marriage in school or college chapels. But the rules were relaxed as a pastoral measure so people could more easily marry in places with family connections. In my view this was a Good Thing.

The only case in which you do not have an automatic right to marry in the parish in which you live is if you have a previous spouse still living. In that case it is up to the vicar, who will want to investigate the circumstances in which the previous marriage broke down, if you are taking the new marriage seriously, and why you want a church wedding.

interalia when gay marriage comes in, no C of E church will be able to offer a marriage service to same sex couples, whether they want to or not. It is not discretionary. Some parishes do bless same sex unions but it is very much up to the priest and how inclusive the parish is.

Also remember OP is not marrying in the C of E - it is the Anglican Church in Wales, which is disestablished and although Anglican is not part of the C of E. C of E is only in England (the clue is in the name!). So some of this may not apply exactly to the Church in Wales, but it should be broadly the same.

[brdgrl]

When I started reading the thread, I thought that you were a bit U, but that it was through a sort of well-intended ignorance. I also thought that the reverend's choice of words was a bit abrupt, which might have meant that he was a bit rude, or that your own emails came across as rude to him (I was not prepared to make a judgement about which, based on your OP).

But actually, seeing how you've responded here to, essentially, not getting your way, and to other posters - I think you probably have been quite a bit more U than you realise. I don't think you will ever see it, though.

[Toadinthehole]

Revoltingpeasant

The C of E is a national organisation in the sense that it is for everyone regardless of whether they actually attend church. However, it is organised by geographical area (the parish), and the presumption is that people's first port of call will be the vicar of the parish in which they live.

Vicars, of course, will be flexible about this - I don't think I've ever attended my local parish church - but only within reasonable limits. It isn't any more appropriate to expect to use the church two parishes along for a wedding than it is to talk to an MP two constituencies along instead of your own.

So much for the CofE. I expect the Church in Wales is similar, although it was disestablished years ago.

[SlimFitWellies]

I can only really repeat what everyone else has said. Our church is a beautiful church, in a beautiful setting, and we do get people approaching us just for weddings and baptisms. We will do it, of course we will, if the vicar has worked with the couple and done the neccessary groundwork. There is a bit of a sense of 'well, we want to bring people to the church, be welcoming' etc, but I have to say it does piss off the regulars to be used like that. Last year there was a Great Debate (as only PCC great debates in small villages can be.... ) about having baptisms on sundays and alot of people were flat against it, because you only see those people on that Sunday, it disturbs the service and then you never see those people again. I really cannot imagine a wedding at any time on a Sunday.

Our vicar is stretched also between 3 churches. He had a non-stipendary vicar to support but he has become incredibly unwell, and has been out of action for a good year. The vicar on a Sunday has an 8 am service, a 9.30 service, an 11 service, then goes on rotation to elderly care homes, then a 6 pm service. He takes Tuesdays, and only Tuesdays off. To support he has the (volunteer) organist x 2, volunteer churchwardens x 2 per church, coffee ladies, choir etc etc etc. Organising all those people for a wedding for any date takes some work. On a Sunday would be nigh on impossible.

I think also, maybe the vicar was a bit abrupt in his response, but you may need to approach in a different way if you do want to get married there.

[Tee2072]

Whether he was rude or not, he'll not be marrying you. Find somewhere else.

Take the hint already!

[clam]

I don't understand why it's easier for people to travel to a wedding on a Sunday. Ok so they'd have Saturday for the journey there, but what about getting back home again for work on Monday morning -specially after a possibly late evening bash wih lots of alcohol b

[Polyethyl]

YABU
I feel sorry for the poor harrassed vicar. He will be busy on a Sunday and he doesn't want to marry you - so take the hint and find somewhere else.
It really shows up your ignorance about church life that you call it Church of England when it is in fact Church in Wales. The two are different, have different rules and don't like being confused.
Even with the memorial bench your connection is tenuous. You can't force the vicar to marry you if he doesn't want to.
The detail of the timings of the various emails is irrelevant.
You are asking for something unusual and inconvenient, the vicar's not keen, so take the hint (and the chorus of opinion here that yabu) and find somewhere else to marry.

[cathers]

I'd be looking at other church venues. It sounds like the Rev has said 'No'.
In our church, even direct descandants of Christ cant get married on a sunday! - there are 3 services each an hour long, ( with coffee and chat after = 6 hrs), add in the odd baptism, another hour and the fact the Rev has 2 other churches and his own young family. Logistics don't allow for it.
I would assume that you aren't familiar with the church otherwise you would be aware of these commitments.

[DeskPlanner]

Yes. I also don't understand how it is easier for people to travel on a Sunday. Most people will be in work the next day won't they, and if they are traveling a distance then it would be more difficult, wouldn't it ?

As an aside, are registry offices open 7 days s week ? I never realised.