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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the law should be able to do more about this dog??

304 replies

curiousgeorgie · 21/04/2013 21:35

Walking in the park today with my DH, 2.5 year old DD & dog, and DD walking in front of us (a very late walker, so very slow and can't run yet), suddenly a mastiff (we think) runs from the trees straight to DD and before we can get there literally steps away, my dog is between them.

It was so so quick but this dog was going for my child, and subsequently absolutely savaged my dog, I grabbed DD, was screaming for the owner and DH was trying to separate this dog from our dog (who is a small friendly breed and was pinned down, yelping, it was awful.)

The owners appeared and pulled the dog off after a few horrible minutes, and argued with us that the dog wasn't dangerous, and the woman got completely in my face and threatened me (while 30 weeks pregnant holding my sobbing DD) so we quickly left.

I called the local police from the car and was told there wasn't anything they can do about the dog as it didn't attack a human. (thank god though.)

But the fact remains, that a dangerous dog is allowed to remain in the park on a sunny weekend day where surely there'll be lots of children??

I'm so so angry and upset about this, my DD is really not herself and my poor dog left with bite injuries to his mouth, ears, face and neck.

Just because this dog didn't quite manage to bite my DD nothing can be done?? AIBU?

OP posts:
saintlyjimjams · 22/04/2013 07:13

Our usual park has a fenced off area with swings & a much larger area that has to be walked through to get to the fenced off bit. Kids play football etc on this bit & dogs run free. My dog is excitable but does not approach small children - if he did I would run up & put him back on the lead.

My dog has been randomly attacked and pinned to the ground twice (and he's not a small dog) in both cases the other dog came charging across to go for him. It was perfectly obvious what was going to happen before it happened in both cases. One particular dog I avoid now as I have seen it pin so many dogs down & the owner is useless. Apparently it's the fault of all the other dogs Hmm The other owner is good and because we know her dog doesn't like mine we keep to opposite ends of the large park (it's not my usual walking spot anyway)

Peahentailfeathers · 22/04/2013 07:29

Bloody hell, YNK - if you're meant to be what passes for a normal dog owner, you're a great argument for banning dogs from any public area.

I normally don't mind dogs and I've been known to tell random people in the street that their dog is lovely but: 1) do not let your smelly mutt run up to me in a public space. I am wearing a nice coat and if it gets dirty because of your animal bouncing on me I will be beyond furious 2) do NOT let your mutt come near my PFB because I am with Monsterchild on that one 3) Your beast does not have the right to go near anyone and if it does like to bother people, keep it on a lead at all times 4) Parks are for humans. Dogs are allowed but that is a privilege that can be withdrawn and probably will be if many owners act like you - thankfully they don't.

Back to the OP, absolutely YANBU and I hope you're feeling better.

everlong · 22/04/2013 07:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 08:56

YNK, my dog is not unsocialised. As I said to the police, I go to that park every weekend and a few mornings in the week, my dog has been to dog training school and his only interest at the park is sniffing the ground and chasing a tennis ball. He is not aggressive and if he gets close to other people, we call him and he comes back. If your dog cannot do this, then it should be on a lead.
If your dog not only cannot be recalled, but is also a large, aggressive dog, then you shouldn't be letting it roam free, and you certainly shouldn't be letting it roam free out of your view as this dog was.
My DD isn't shy of dogs, she loves them, she points out every 'doggy' from the car window and as people have done to us before, sometimes we ask owners if she's okay to stroke dogs we meet on walks.
I find you extremely insulting. I'm a responsible parent and a responsible dog owner.
I wouldn't be surprised if you, however, were not.

DD is fine and much happier today. My dog isn't really himself and has a hot nose so I'm going to take him to the vet at lunchtime.

I was supposed to be meeting some friends in the park ( even though its not a sunny day!!) but I think I'm going to find a new one...

I'm just seething today. I'm doing that thing where you think of all the things you should have said and done but didn't... Holding a 2 year old and 30 weeks pregnant isn't really helpful to being able to stand up for yourself, but it just makes my blood boil that they've got away with it, and next time a small child might not be so lucky.

OP posts:
Twattybollocks · 22/04/2013 09:03

I think this may well have been a case of mistaken intentions. The big dog comes bounding up, probably curious about dog/child. Small dog (possibly socialised, possibly not) gets intimidated by large dog, or even small dogs owners are intimidated by large dog and small dog picks up on this and becomes defensive. Situation escalates. large dog owners probably shocked by the escalation become defensive, small dogs owners are likewise shocked and scared, worried about their dog. Shouting/aggression from dog owners ensues.
One thing I can say is that if a dog the size of a mastiff decided run over and make an attack on a small dog, there would be life threatening injuries to the small dog. It's unlikely that the dog intended to attack the people/child as otherwise it would have ignored the small dog and carried right on attacking. Dog-dog agression and dog-human agression are not the same thing, and one does not usually lead to the other.
I have a perceived dangerous breed dog (staff), if she was off lead and saw kids she would 100% become suddenly deaf to all recall attempts and go over to play. She loves kids, she can't help herself. I understand that not everyone wants 20kg of over excitable staffie trying to stick her tongue in their ear, so I keep her on a lead. At all times when out in a park. Yes it's a shame for the dog, but if I let her off lead and she did run over to someone then because of her breed I wouldn't be able to guarantee that the people would not make a complaint to the dog warden and we would potentially be in very hot water.
I think the large dogs owner should realise that other people do not know their dog, or trust its behaviour, and if it can't be recalled from other people or dogs 100% reliably it should be on a lead. Since we don't live in an ideal world, the owners of the small dog should also learn what to do when a large intimidating dog approaches to avoid being attacked. No, they shouldn't have to, but it's wise to be prepared.

Tailtwister · 22/04/2013 09:04

These out of control dogs are becoming a huge problem. It sounds OTT to suggest that all dogs should be kept on a lead, but unfortunately it's starting to come to that. The few out of control dogs are tarnishing the reputation of the rest. As a parent, I can't tell which dogs are likely to go for my child and which aren't. In areas where children are playing, I really do think all dogs need to be kept on a lead.

Hope your dog is ok OP.

Tailtwister · 22/04/2013 09:06

Great post Twatty. I completely agree.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 09:10

I didn't mistake the intention!

And this dog continued to bite my dog for a few minutes while the owner and my DH tried to pull it off! It was absolutely awful, and your suggestion that my dog 'may not be socialised' is not even relevant, though I can assure you he is!

He didn't aggressively run up to anyone.
He didn't scare anyone.
He was with his responsible owners and was behaving impeccably as always.
I've seen enough dogs and had enough dogs to know this ones vicious intent.
My dog put himself between this dog and my DD in the fraction of a second it took for us to react. I have no doubt that this dog would've hurt my DD.

OP posts:
34DD · 22/04/2013 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 09:17

But this dog wasn't on a lead... Mine wasn't, but then mine didn't aggressively run up to anyone did he?

OP posts:
fuzzypicklehead · 22/04/2013 09:38

Dear God, I Hmm so hard, I may have pulled a muscle.

OP--YANBU If a dog has poor recall, it should be on a lead. Even a dog with great recall should never be out of the owner's sightline. "Just being friendly" doesn't count for beans. A friendly dog can still knock over a child in it's enthusiasm.

I wouldn't say that all dogs should be on leads at all times... but I do believe all dogs should be under their owner's control at all times, whether on lead or off.

LessMissAbs · 22/04/2013 09:39

YNK - you sound as if you have become too empathetic towards canines, and can't really distinguish the social pecking order of life any more. Just as this thread shows that the law gives priority to humans, so does "parklife".

I have horses, and as a horse owner, much of my pleasure is gained from training horses and riding them in an environment shared with other public space users. I often get chased by out of control dogs which don't have good training, fortunately my horses don't bother. I wouldn't dream of letting my horse slop along, frightening people, children, etc because hes feeling good.

Your dog is relying on you to train him how to behave in public places and to control him - he gets his cues from you, as owner. If you as the owner don't appreciate basic manners, then its a pity for your dogs.

YNK · 22/04/2013 10:01

I think this is the point I was making...... Just as this thread shows that the law gives priority to humans, so does "parklife".

People become territorial over their use of the park. The next move they make will be sitting down with a picnic. FFS. I have asked people why they don't do this in the area of the park which is fenced of as a designated play area, and they will tell you that older children are playing on bikes or with footballs. Well ok then you have chosen to risk your sandwiches where there are dogs running free so deal with it!

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:04

YNK, you are on another planet.

You really think I shouldn't have taken my DD to the park?? That it's my fault and I put her in danger?

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 22/04/2013 10:07

OP, if your dog is territorial towards your family to the point that it defends with aggression then you are wrong not to have it on a lead at all times. My GS is friendly, but if challenged will respond, being the breed she is, she will come off better against most dogs. She shouldn't be held accountable for this. You cannot have the same laws for dogs as we do for people, if challenged, they might respond and the bigger/tougher breeds should not be under threat of being PTS because they cam hold their own in a fight.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:09

Birdsgottafly - did you read my OP?

My dog is not territorial and didn't defend with aggression.

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 22/04/2013 10:13

is your dog dead? Not to be blunt but every Mastiff that I know would have killed the other dog, if they had been biting for a few minutes and if it didn't attack your DH in the process then it is safe to have around people. I think that you have misinterpreted the dog initial reason for coming over.

Booboostoo · 22/04/2013 10:14

The dog should not have run up to your DD. All dogs should know not to pester people and to only approach if invited, or they should be kept on a lead until they learn this.

This thread has been a bit hijacked by YNK's silly comments. Setting those aside, I will ask the OP again, are you sure the dog was intent on attacking your DD? Such a random and exceptionally aggressive move is very rare and I doubt the large dog would have been in any way put off by your dog; he would have ignored your dog and continued for the child.

Is it possible the large dog was coming over to play (which I completely agree it shouldn't have) and your dog guarded the family which set off the fight?

Did the bites break skin? If they did you should take your dog to the vets asap as dog bites can get very infected.

Homebird8 · 22/04/2013 10:15

IMHO, stuff what the dogs did or did not do, although I think the OP is a responsible owner.

What about the woman got completely in my face and threatened me (while 30 weeks pregnant holding my sobbing DD)? Shock

KansasCityOctopus · 22/04/2013 10:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Birdsgottafly · 22/04/2013 10:18

But you said it happened so quick. Your dog jumped in front of your DD, it must have been in a protective manner, which had warning body language attached (to a dog anyway). If you were behind you didn't see your dogs stance fully. You now know that it isn't a good idea to have your dog off the lead with your DD.

Birdsgottafly · 22/04/2013 10:20

Kansas, you do realise that the OP's dog wasn't on a lead also?

Birdsgottafly · 22/04/2013 10:20

Kansas, you do realise that the OP's dog wasn't on a lead also?

fuzzypicklehead · 22/04/2013 10:21

True, Homebird.

The woman's behaviour should have been enough to get the police to take notice, even if the dog's didn't.

ATJabberwocky · 22/04/2013 10:21

YANBU, all dogs should be on leads where children are. There should also be a way to report aggressive animals so the owners have to keep them muzzled when out in public. I hope your dog is OK.

"The owners appeared and pulled the dog off after a few horrible minutes, and argued with us that the dog wasn't dangerous, and the woman got completely in my face and threatened me "

I'd also report the owner. Any dog owner that has to pulled their dog off from another, clearly has way to argue their dog isn't dangerous.