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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the law should be able to do more about this dog??

304 replies

curiousgeorgie · 21/04/2013 21:35

Walking in the park today with my DH, 2.5 year old DD & dog, and DD walking in front of us (a very late walker, so very slow and can't run yet), suddenly a mastiff (we think) runs from the trees straight to DD and before we can get there literally steps away, my dog is between them.

It was so so quick but this dog was going for my child, and subsequently absolutely savaged my dog, I grabbed DD, was screaming for the owner and DH was trying to separate this dog from our dog (who is a small friendly breed and was pinned down, yelping, it was awful.)

The owners appeared and pulled the dog off after a few horrible minutes, and argued with us that the dog wasn't dangerous, and the woman got completely in my face and threatened me (while 30 weeks pregnant holding my sobbing DD) so we quickly left.

I called the local police from the car and was told there wasn't anything they can do about the dog as it didn't attack a human. (thank god though.)

But the fact remains, that a dangerous dog is allowed to remain in the park on a sunny weekend day where surely there'll be lots of children??

I'm so so angry and upset about this, my DD is really not herself and my poor dog left with bite injuries to his mouth, ears, face and neck.

Just because this dog didn't quite manage to bite my DD nothing can be done?? AIBU?

OP posts:
Doodledumdums · 22/04/2013 02:57

No- YOU don't make sodding sense!

YNK · 22/04/2013 03:01

I think I do Doodle! I can see it clearly from both sides!
The op said their dog attacked first! Why put your child?small defensive dog in that position.
Unnecessary and stupid!
There are lots of places they could have gone to, why choose somewhere dogs were running free???
Why.....just to make a point? Crazy!

MammaTJ · 22/04/2013 03:04

Where are these places you can take children that do not have dogs in them?

You have been asked that before and declined to answer YNK. Do tell me please. I took my children to the park today, also my dog. She does not like terriers. There were two terriers in the park, so I kept her on the lead. That way, I could totally control the situation. I could not have controlled other peoples dogs though.

Where could I have taken my children other than a park?

YNK · 22/04/2013 03:08

I have answered that repeatedly MammaTJ. There are lots of parks where there are signs saying 'dogs to be kept on leash at all times'!
In the park I use, half of it is given to fenced in play areas! The rest is woodland with a path through!
I also use an area where there are signs saying 'no ball games'!

YNK · 22/04/2013 03:15

I am happy to take my toddler grandson with me, but he loves dogs too and usually the dogs are too busy chasing each other and playing to be bothered with people anyway!
We also meet people who are delighted to see dogs and make a fuss of them!
It is so nice to see humans and dogs interacting well. IMHO this is the norm, it is only when someone passes through expecting their rights to be upheld at the expense of others that there is any problem!
To use your child and aggressive small dog to make a point is crazy!

Doodledumdums · 22/04/2013 03:18

No, you don't make any sense because you clearly haven't read the OP. The little dog didn't attack first. If you had read the OP then you would know that. You clearly can't see it from the OP's side at all. She did not say that her dog attacked first, or that her dog even retaliated when the big dog attacked it. She never said that she only goes to the park on sunny days. And she never said she was doing anything to 'prove a point.' You appear to be making things up!

I am another person who would like to know where in the UK you can take a child where there aren't dogs running free? I have seen play areas within parks where dogs aren't allowed...but you have to get the child through the park first to get to those places. How would you suggest someone does this exactly? Hold the child above their head and make a run for it?

MammaTJ · 22/04/2013 03:19

I do not think for on moment the OP was using her dog and child to make a point. They were walking in a park, which many people do.

In the park I went to earlier, there is a fenced off play area, where dogs are not allowed. You have to walk through the larger part of the park to get to it though. Were my children meant to fly? Or maybe the dog owners should be trusted to either have their dogs trained not to go running up to small (ish) children in a manner which could be viewed as threatening, or kept on a lead if they cannot be relied upon not to do this.

My own dog can be trusted around children but not around terriers or balls. So, she was kept on her lead.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman · 22/04/2013 03:21

Is it a full moon or summat?

Doodledumdums · 22/04/2013 03:21

I also think that interaction between friendly dogs amd humans is nice WHEN IT IS SAFE AND WANTED. This was not safe, the big dog was out of control and injured the small dog which could very easily have been the small child.

You absolutely do not have a point.

YNK · 22/04/2013 03:25

The intention of the bigger dog is unknown. All we know is that it ran at/ up to the people and the small dog, whereupon the small dog went on the defense and attacked.
People here are saying this was a good thing? FFS!

Doodledumdums · 22/04/2013 03:27

Please tell me where the OP says that the small dog attacked? I've asked a few times now. Can't seem to find it myself...

MammaTJ · 22/04/2013 03:30

It ran up to a small child in a way that the smaller dog viewed as threatening. You said yourself dogs are a good judge of canine intent, the smaller dog judged the larger dogs intent to be attcking the child, which he then defended against.

Even if it was bounding up to the child with friendly intent it could still have hurt the child by being too boisterous.

YNK · 22/04/2013 03:48

The smaller dog attacked - 'got in between the dog and the people' It was being defensive and the bigger dog would have reacted too!
BTW I do keep my small terrier on a retractable lead as he can be unpredictable. My other dog is a total nutcase who loves a run and her recall is perfect.
I have seen great happy dogs be very curious about small children because they are so rarely in the park. It is not unusual to hear parents shouting at dog owners to keep them on a leash. I don't know why on earth they think they take priority when these dogs are in the park every day with other dog owners and children without any problems.
It's always the rare visitors who are parents of younger children who do this. They can be very aggressive to other park users and I have checked with my local authority that all park users have rights.
If a dog attacks then something can and will be done about it. I have never seen an aggressive dog off leash in the park I use!
I have been talking to other dog owners recently and we have been taking bets on how soon an aggressive entitled parent will turn up shouting!

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman · 22/04/2013 04:05

I'm off for a lay down in a darkened room because this thread has taken a very strange turn.

Jengnr · 22/04/2013 04:08

YNK is clearly insane.

There s no other explanation for such batshit comments!

monsterchild · 22/04/2013 04:22

TMI. If your boisterous dog comes up to and messes with my toddler you can be sure I'll beat the ever living shit out of our dog. I don't care if its a dog friendly park, if you dog approaches my kid without an invitation is a bad dog and will be treated as a threat.

I don't think you realize that many dog owners are not responsible people. Testing dogs like children isn't a safe way to keep a dog. And you really seem to believe that a dog has more rights that a child, which is not true.

jchocchip · 22/04/2013 04:25

I agree YNK is on another planet thinking it ok for dogs to run up to small children. It can put them off dogs for life. If dogs run at children they should not be off lead in the park near children. In our park there are plenty of places for dogs to run free away from the play areas.

monsterchild · 22/04/2013 04:39

That should be YNK, and your dog. Dang autocorrect!

MrRected · 22/04/2013 05:03

YNK - you are a nutter! How does the dog ending up between the humans and the much larger dog, constitute an attack????

As for avoiding parks because dogs are wandering off leash (illegally). Really? You are just trying to wind people up!!!!!

MrsDarylDixon · 22/04/2013 05:48

Blimey YNK, were you the other owner in the OP? If not, I'm really struggling to understand why you're being such a twonk.

People shouldn't take their kids to the park?! Honestly?!

But you've got a right to be there cos you go more often? Yeah, that's how PUBLIC spaces work.

And I find it very hard to believe that all dog owners that you know pick up after their dog. There's no dog shit in your park at all? Sounds almost too good to be true...

TantrumsAndBalloons · 22/04/2013 06:25

YNK, attitudes like yours is the reason people with small children think that dog owners are irresponsible and dangerous FFS.

no dog, big or small should go running up to anyone uninvited.
You sound like one of those owners who's dogs come running up to my NewDog and totally ignore me when I ask them to move the dog because he is nervous.
The response is "oh he is ok, he just wants to play"

Your dog should not be running up to people uninvited. It doesn't matter how often you are in the park, how often other people use the park. Just because you like to see your dog running up and saying hello, that does not mean everyone agrees.
People see a strange dog running up to their small child, with no responsible owner calling the dog back and quite honestly they panic. I'm not surprised. Surely you can think it's ok?

Some people have been bitten badly by dogs, some people are scared of dogs, it doesn't mean they cannot use the park.

But everyone has to be respectful to the other park users.
And if you cannot see that a dog running up to anyone and everyone uninvited is the wrong thing, then you are the irresponsible one IMHO

rainbowslollipops · 22/04/2013 06:36

I don't quite know what else to suggest that hasn't been suggested already. Ask your vet possibly? I hope you're all ok especially dd & dog. Well done to your dog for protecting dd.

pumpkinsweetie · 22/04/2013 06:44

It's just lucky you had your dog with you, or things could have been much worse. Your dog has basically saved your child's life.
The owners of the vicious dog should be ashamed! Cant believe they have got away with taking a dangerous dog to a place where kids play!

Hope your dog is ok op?

BeebiesQueen · 22/04/2013 06:58

After being attacked by a dog when I was little, I'm terrified of dogs )although gettin better with the smaller ones).

I'd love to know where these parks are that dogs must be kept on leads or are not allowed, because I'm yet to find any! Dogs don't have to be on a lead in the uk, unless there is livestock around. That's a fact. Any park is both for dogs, children, adult and well anyone who wants to use it.

Op yanbu some dogs are lovely, others are not. I personally think there should be more lead laws, but that's largely down to my expo earpieces and fears

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 22/04/2013 06:59

When you have a dog you generally know from a dogs approach whether it is going to friendly or not. There's a big difference between a dog that comes charging over, tail wagging to play and a dog running at full pelt to attack. My dog was attacked by a Jack Russel recently and it was totally obvious what was goings happen whilst the dog was enroute and I've seen many many dogs approach mine to play. The body language of the JR left me in absolutely no doubt as to what was about to happen. My dog is well socialised, knows when to back off from other dogs and has never had a problem before. She did just enough to defend herself and no more.

The OP felt that her child was at thread from the approaching dog. I'm sure as a dog owner she's seen enough dogs to know when one is approaching to play or for other intent. Their dog interpreted the other dogs approach as hostile, placed itself in front of the child to prevent any harm coming to it. Yes you can't say if a dog attacks another dog then it would definitely attack a human but in this situation the OP felt that was it's intent. If their dog hadn't been there we would have found out the other dogs intention. I for one am very relieved we don't know what woukd have happened if their dog hadn't been there.

A well socialised dog should not be allowed to approach children off lead YNK, it should be called back to you and only allowed to approach once you have established the child and parent are happy to fo do. It absolutely under no circumstances should be allowed to approach unless you have established this and in the UK under the Dangerous Dog Act there's a bit about a dog being perceived as a threat, it doesn't have to have caused harm, only that it's behaviour is perceived as a threat. This was drummed into us at dog training classes. Others more knowledgable than me can clarify that bit.

Plenty of dog owners take their children on dog walks and everything is fine whilst the dogs hurtle around and play with each other. The biggest danger to the child is ususally being knocked over by over exuberant dogs which easily managed. I just can't see what the OP did wrong on any level and I'm sorry for what her family went through.

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