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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think the law should be able to do more about this dog??

304 replies

curiousgeorgie · 21/04/2013 21:35

Walking in the park today with my DH, 2.5 year old DD & dog, and DD walking in front of us (a very late walker, so very slow and can't run yet), suddenly a mastiff (we think) runs from the trees straight to DD and before we can get there literally steps away, my dog is between them.

It was so so quick but this dog was going for my child, and subsequently absolutely savaged my dog, I grabbed DD, was screaming for the owner and DH was trying to separate this dog from our dog (who is a small friendly breed and was pinned down, yelping, it was awful.)

The owners appeared and pulled the dog off after a few horrible minutes, and argued with us that the dog wasn't dangerous, and the woman got completely in my face and threatened me (while 30 weeks pregnant holding my sobbing DD) so we quickly left.

I called the local police from the car and was told there wasn't anything they can do about the dog as it didn't attack a human. (thank god though.)

But the fact remains, that a dangerous dog is allowed to remain in the park on a sunny weekend day where surely there'll be lots of children??

I'm so so angry and upset about this, my DD is really not herself and my poor dog left with bite injuries to his mouth, ears, face and neck.

Just because this dog didn't quite manage to bite my DD nothing can be done?? AIBU?

OP posts:
Stinkyminkymoo · 22/04/2013 10:23

YNK you're talking complete bollocks (though have skipped rest of thread as I got more irritated) we have a large breed dog, she gets walked at least 50/60 miles a week. She's not off the lead in a public place as her recall is terrible and she's dog aggressive.

I would be horrified if my dog did this and simply cannot understand your pov at all. Parks are for responsible people, not dog owners who can't control their dog.

I know exactly what kind of owner you are and I'm not impressed.

lurkedtoolong · 22/04/2013 10:24

Jesus Christ. I generally prefer animals to humans but some of the reactions on this thread are fucking loopy. Parks are for human enjoyment not a free range dog play area where people should be locked up in confined areas. Dog owners should have full control of their pets either by instant recall or on a lead.

OP if your dog has been wounded and needs vet treatment is it worth saying there's been criminal damage done? Dogs are possessions and your possession has been damaged causing financial cost? Don't know if it would work but might be worth a try.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:24

Birdsgottafly - you weren't there. No, thankfully my dog is not dead but he is injured.

Own a mastiff by any chance??

Booboo - it all happened in a matter of seconds, as soon as my dog was in the way, I was already grabbing DD, at the same moment as the dog went for my dog. It was a completely vicious, horrible dog, I have had dogs all my life, as a child and as an adult. I know what that dog ran over to do. It didn't approach in a friendly way, Once through the trees it sort of lunged at us. It's so hard to describe and include every detail when it was so quick, but I promise I'm not wrong. I was so worried for other children in the park I called the police the second we were in the car, and I wouldn't call the police lightly.

OP posts:
Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:26

And birds - I totally disagree! I couldnt be more thankful that my dog wasn't on the lead!!!

OP posts:
Homebird8 · 22/04/2013 10:27

Yes fuzzypicklehead, last time I looked, threatening behaviour by a human was something the police should be interested in. Perhaps the OP in her shock and focus on her own dog and DD forgot to mention it to them.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:30

I did tell them, I was shaking like a leaf and my DD was crying, they heard my panic and focused on the dog issue. They didn't seem overly concerned about her.

This vile owner deserved to be spoken to by the police, I agree, for more than just her dog, but my main concern was to get my DD away from her and my dog somewhere we could check him out.

OP posts:
kitsmummy · 22/04/2013 10:30

I haven't got time to read the whole thread, so this may have already been suggested, but have you spoken to the RSPCA? My work colleague's two dogs were attacked on seperate occasions by an ex fighting dog. The owner thought he was above the law is it's a dog on dog attack.

However, the RSPCA are fighting this through their solicitors and trying to prosecute him on the basis of the man inflicting cruelty on dogs, through not controlling his dog.

If they win, it will be ground-breaking and should make it easier in the future to prosecute dangerous dogs. It's worth speaking to them about it anyway.

MajaBiene · 22/04/2013 10:32

If a dog was running full pelt towards my child it would get a kick in the head from me.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:33

I'm not sure anything will do any good now, I dont know their names, and only have a vague description of the owners and whereabouts in the park they were.

OP posts:
Homebird8 · 22/04/2013 10:36

Goodness Georgie, then you've been further let down by the police. Shock Given that you and this woman are both likely to be using the park again, with or without your dogs, I think you should be prepared to call the police again should you get any more threatening behaviour from her. So sorry for what you've all been through. Sad

YNK · 22/04/2013 10:37

I think a lot of people need to familiarise themselves on dog laws before they make assumptions.
In my local park there is an area where dogs can run free. They are not allowed in the other areas of the park which is fenced off. There are lots of other parks close by where dogs must be kept on a leash at all times.
If you decide to bring your toddler and dog into the area with free range dogs then you are crazy to assume dog owners will change their behaviour to suit you!
Every spring parents do this in the area I run my dog and are often aggressive toward dog owners. They are the ones choosing to turn their back on other areas and assume they have priority everywhere. Not so.....I invite them to talk to the local authority for clarification of the law!

saintlyjimjams · 22/04/2013 10:39

The fact that dogs can run free doesn't mean they have priority over humans. I have a dog, who runs free in a park also used by families and haven't once had a parent be aggressive towards me. Maybe because I realise my dog comes second to human users Hmm

MajaBiene · 22/04/2013 10:40

In every park I have ever been to, there is no separate dog only/off lead area. There is no choice to go to a dog free park.

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 22/04/2013 10:41

I am a dog owner. In fact, I own a dog who is fear aggressive towards other dogs sometimes. I sometimes walk my dog in the park. I never allow him to approach other people or dogs. If there are toddlers about, I lead my dog. Why? Because as much as I love my dog and it's a pain to have to keep leading him etc, people come first. My ownership of a dog should not negatively impact anyone else. The vast majority of dog owners feel the same. In the OP's circumstances, if I was the mastiff's owner, I would have grabbed my dog and apologised profusely while checking that her DD and her DDog were ok. I would not have gone off on one or tried to shift blame. Seeing dogs play is great, but not all dogs like to play and permission should always be asked for imo. If a dog runs up to mine and doesn't get the hint pretty quickly my dog will chase it off.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:43

YNK - so to expect dog owners to be responsible and keep an eye on their dogs, or to keep dangerous ones on a lead is selfish of me to expect??

That isn't changing behaviour to suit me!! That is just common sense and common courtesy!!!

OP posts:
Greenkit · 22/04/2013 10:44

Actually while looking for another bit of information about dogs I found this

Out of control dogs

Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act applies to all dogs that are out of control in a public place, not just those listed above. If a dog acts in a manner that makes a person afraid of attack, then it is an offence. The penalties are the same as those imposed upon people who own a banned dog: a maximum fine of £5,000 and/or a six-month prison sentence. A dog that is dangerously out of control may be seized by the a police officer or by a dog warden. It is possible for the courts to issue a warrant that will enable the police to enter a building and seize a dog. Courts can order the dog to be destroyed.

Dahlen · 22/04/2013 10:45

If the OP wished to pursue it, she could pester the police about this. An offence has automatically been committed if a dog bites a human, and because this didn't happen the police aren't that interested. However, a court can decide if a dog is considered to be 'dangerously out of control' regarding incidents in which another animal is injured.

I'm not sure what will be gained from that, however, if there is no means of tracing the mastiff and owner.

I don't know what really happened. It's very possible that the intentions of both dogs have been misinterpreted. Ordinarily, I"d say that' the case.

However, the fact that the mastiff owner got completely in my face and threatened me (while 30 weeks pregnant holding my sobbing DD) is rather suggestive. Yes, people get defensive in shock, etc., but no reasonable person would threaten a heavily pregnant woman even in difficult circumstances. It may make me prejudiced but the combination of a large breed with a reputation (however unfairly deserved) for aggression, combined with an owner who thinks nothing of threatening a heavily pregnant woman with a small child in tow, to me paints a picture of someone who has deliberately chosen a large breed for the status they think it confers without bothering to put in the hard work necessary to retain control.

YNK · 22/04/2013 10:45

Maja, perhaps you should campaign your local authority so everyone can enjoy the parks.
sjj, I am glad you have never had this experience. Round here I have been talking to the other regular dog walkers, and just as we expected, the first sign of sunshine has brought out the aggressive parents who wrongly assume they have priority in all areas.

Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:48

YNK- I give up. You never answer a direct question. Just keep sprouting your nonsense. Aggressive parents??!

OP posts:
Original poster
curiousgeorgie · 22/04/2013 10:50

Dahlen - I would love to pursue it, but I have no idea how to find these people and was scared and intimidated and eft as quickly as we could so only have a vague description at best.

OP posts:
MajaBiene · 22/04/2013 10:50

Humans have priority over animals.

Greenkit · 22/04/2013 10:51

Ask other dog owners, if they act like that they will be well known, or get back onto the police as I posted above they had a dog out of control

Softlysoftly · 22/04/2013 10:55

Well caught up on the thread after leavingit kat night and 2 thingthings are confirmed.

1st YNK after avoiding the question is indeed the owner of a large uncontrolled dog and a shining example of the culture of idiocy that will see ALL dog owners penalised for the acts of a few.

2nd the attitude of "look at my huge bollocks with my dead 'ard dog" is ringing loud and clear. If a mastiff wants to attack it'll have your dog, nice.

Apologies to the responsible large breed owners but you are becoming a minority Ithink.

KittensoftPuppydog · 22/04/2013 11:00

Please remember that dogs need to run free and behave like dogs. I'm more nervous of aggressive dogs than most people as my dog has been attacked quite badly, however I do think we need to remember that human beings are not the only animals in the world, and that we are a lot more dangerous than dogs.
It seems to me that there are many places where dogs are not allowed or must be kept on leads. The few places where dogs can still run free should be protected.
Having said that I think that people who allow dogs to be aggressive should be prosecuted. It's in all our interests that they are.
When my dog was attacked I did a bit of detective work and then informed the local council. They warned the owner and got her to agree not to take the dog to that park anymore.

YNK · 22/04/2013 11:01

I have answered questions repeatedly. I have also said my dogs are under control, again repeatedly.
Humans take priority and that includes dog owners (who are, incidentally, human too).
I still maintain that if parents know they are in an area where dogs are running free, they are risking their childrens exposure to dogs running around. If they choose to take this risk for a toddler, they are being irresponsible parents.
There are lots of areas they can go to where I live.