Should my daughter take the joke or is my brother unreasonable?

[YoniMacaroni]

My DD is 19, she lives away at uni - not too far away and will sometimes come home at weekends and she comes home in the holidays too.

She's in full time education during the week and works all weekend too. She does do the usual teenage thing of sleeping in late and going out drinking but not to excess. She still helps out at home when she's actually here.

Anyway my brother who has always been quite a joker always (without fail) says to her whenever/ he comes over usually in the afternoon - "so have you just got up then" - or he refers to her as scruff. She doesn't look untidy to me.

She's recently suffered through some minor depression and yesterday again when she came into the living room and he was there he said "have you just got up?", she did get a bit snappy and say "no, I haven't actually"

And I'd told him she was going to a buffet with her friends that night to which he said to her "oh you'll be alright because they do chips"

She used to be a fussy eater when she was little but she's definitely not now.

I could tell this comment annoyed her too.

When he left she told that she's fed up of the constant criticisms of her every time he sees her. I'm not sure if she's being extra sensitive because shes been so down lately and my brother doesn't mean it in a serious way.

Who is being unreasonable? I feel a little bit stuck.

[TigOldBitties]

I think it sounds like a bit of both. She's probably being a little over sensitive whilst he's being a bit insensitive.

I'd highly doubt he means any harm, and I'd doubt if she wasn't feeling a bit down she would care.

Maybe just mention to both of them to cut each other some slack. I think its a bit unfair to be cross with him if he has no idea about the depression. You don't need to tell him just say she's finding things hard, give her a break. Tell her eh's only trying to be friendly, let it go.

[MadBusLady]

I have relatives like this and they're just tedious dickheads, really. I avoid them now, as I imagine lots of other people who aren't related to them do. I do not and never will understand how people are allowed to be rude and dickish to each other under the blanket of "family banter".

If he really doesn't mean her any harm, then he'll presumably stop as soon as you tell him how stupid and annoying it is to treat her like she's 12, which I hope you will.

[Cherriesarelovely]

Aaaaarrrghhh! People who constantly make little jibes like that are so bloody annoying and goading. I completely agree with your Dd. Yanbu at all. My dad has a friend that makes constant "blonde" jokes in front of me and Dd who are both blonde. It is incredibly irritating. I wouldn't dream of making jokes about fat blokes or bald blokes even though he is both.

I would probably ask him to stop winding her up, poor kid. Also annoying is the stereotyping thing he is doing to her. It's not funny after the first time.

[MadBusLady]

Just to clarify, the dickish relatives did much the same thing to me at the same age, I wasn't depressed and I still minded. It just gets fucking old, really, really quickly, doesn't matter what age you are or what your mental state is. Imagine if you once dropped a plate in front of someone, and every time they saw you for ever afterwards they said "Ooh, we won't give you a teacup, we know what happens with you and crockery!"

[sudaname]

I had an uncle like this. He was actually a nice man underneath it all and could be very funny and was very quick witted. But he was always getting digs at people and had a very mocking sense of humour. He was from the Irish side of my family and l noticed it seemed to be almost just a way they had , very dry ,very sarcastic. But l know he would be mortified if he thought he ever hurt anyones feelings and would stop it if told.
I think you should tell him to stop it, it's like he doesn't accept she is grown up and able to have a mature conversation with her instead of these 'adult teasing a child' sort of exchanges. ```

[Fakebook]

He's being an arsehole and as her mother, you should defend her. Why do you keep quiet?

I overslept a lot during my teen years due to normal teenage reasons, then during my university years and my whole family still take the piss out of me when they call/come around with the usual "did you just wake up?" "Are you still sleeping?". I'm 30 with two young children so oversleeping or even sleeping is not something I can do anymore! My brother is the worse for it, and his wife started doing it too until I told her I'm not lazy like you two and don't have time to sleep.

Anyway, my point is, either tell your dd to stand up for herself or you do it because it will carry on forever.

[DoJo]

Apart from anything it suggests that he has never taken an interest in anything about her: she was fussy once and he hasn't bothered to learn that she isn't any more; students are stereotyped as lazy and he hasn't bothered to learn that she doesn't conform to that stereotype etc. This is the kind of banter that you share with someone you hardly know and it doesn't sound like he will ever get to know her if he pisses her off as soon as she appears by asking the same tedious and vaguely offensive question every time.

[sudaname]

That's a good analogy Madbuslady and it is really annoying when you are categorised forever for one mistake and does indeed wear very thin.

[DontmindifIdo]

if he's not like this with everyone, but everytime he sees her he insults her in a "jokey way" then he's an arse. He's putting her down over and over and if she ever says anything back then "she can't take a joke" - if this is not something that goes back and forth, and not how everyone is spoken to, then it is singling out and bullying.

I would tell him that you've noticed he's incapable of seeing your DD2 without insulting her, and does he realise its not funny but odd that he's like this. If he says something about it just being a joke (which he will) or just banter, try saying "ok, I'll believe that when I hear you ever say something that can't be seen as having a dig at her. It's constaint, you're being rude." and I'd refuse to look after his DC if it means when he comes to pick up, he's rude to your child.

It could be he's fallen in a pattern with this and hasn't noticed - but point it out, you do'nt have to say she's depressed, this would be bad behaviour regardless of if she was depressed or not.

[DontmindifIdo]

oh, and I'd be sullen if I realised someone was coming over who I knew would insult and/or humilate me at some point in the conversation I would be forced to have with them.

[valiumredhead]

Insult and humiliate? Does no one tease and banter within families? Good grief it's this sort of boring shit ( and imo that is all it is, boring not malicious) that prepares us for the outside world. Saying that though, she is 19 and living away from home, I'm sure she has come across a lot worse.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

I would give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he is genuinely trying to interact with her, as others have said, in a jovial-uncle kind of way, and hasn't realised how much he is upsetting her, and I would tell him. You need to be absolutely clear with him that you are being serious, that you know he is only joking and isn't being deliberately malicious, but that it needs to stop, full stop.

Hopefully he will be horrified that he has upset your dd, and he will apologise to her and stop at once - that is what a decent, sensitive person will do..

[MadBusLady]

Well, I don't put up with this sort of boring shit in the outside world either. Only I don't have to, because most people don't do it on account of not being socially inept weirdies (or if they do, they lend themselves open to being the subject of AIBU threads). Why anyone takes it from relatives is beyond me.

[foslady]

I used to have an Uncle who thought he was funny. Weight related 'jokes' at my mum. Then started on my sister during puberty. Then he made a weight related 'joke' on me. So I turned it on his wife.

When he saw how upset she was the jokes stopped. Maybe your daughter needs to lose it a bit so he can see how 'funny' he is.

[valiumredhead]

foslady but what you are describing is cruel and not what is happening in the OP's situation. All she needs to do is say 'Ha ha you're funny" and roll her eyes at him.

[DontmindifIdo]

Valium - but the OP's DD doesn't make comments back - 'banter' suggests back and forth, if repeated digs at someone go only one way, with them never acting like they find it funny, or making digs of a similar nature back at the other person, then it's not 'banter' it's just repeatidly insulting someone, having a go over and over every time you see them.

Valium, if you do this to relatives, stop and think, do they tease and throw slight digs back at you? then it's probably ok, do they roll their eyes and laugh along, or do they just look annoyed? If it's the latter, then you aren't doing mild teasing and banter, you are repeatidly insulting someone, but in a jokey way so it's hard for them to call you on it without looking like they have no sense of humour.

In adult life, people like this who are rude to you over and over, you can normally just ignore, but an uncle who your mother invites round to your home, can't be avoided. It's a pity because people like this don't always realise what they are doing.

[foslady]

Exactly - fight fire with fire.....but in my Uncles case it was only when he could see how hurtful words could be that he stopped. He wouldn't listen when we told him to stop as it was only a joke in his eyes, but when I said that 'Tubby 3 was as well as Tubby 4' (and I was a size 6 and underweight ffs) and when he asked who Tubby 4 was got told 'Well you married her' that he stopped. My mum had suffered his 'jokes' all her life and had always put herself down. Her brother never ONCE supported her. My sister was at a vulnerable part of life but yet she was considered fair game to him. Sometimes you have to hurt back as much as they hurt you for people to see that it's a form of bullying (and btw, the Aunt was overweight and would sit and smirk at his 'jokes' - if just ONCE she had stuck up for my mum or sister it might not have been said).

[foslady]

Thank you Dontmind - one way banter is hurtful and bullying

[Remotecontrolduck]

Er, he's a twat. Banter is a two way street, if someone's not laughing and making a dig back, it's not funny and you shut up and/or apologise.

No way is he being reasonable, tell him to shut up or leave next time

[valiumredhead]

Valium, if you do this to relatives

I don't do this at all as I am not a boring man, ime no women do this!

[DontmindifIdo]

Foslady - I would bet your Uncle didn't stop because he suddenly realised what he was saying was hurtful, but because he realised you'd be hurtful back - and he wanted to avoid his DW being hurt, not because he wanted to avoid hurting you, your sister and your mum. Very few people (particularly one married to a woman who's sensitive about her weight) don't realise that insulting other people's size is hurtful and rude.

[foslady]

So my comments weren't banter then? Hmmmmmmm...............

[valiumredhead]

I just think it's a complete communication failiure on his part - he wants to talk/joke with her but doesn't know how to. People like that should be pitied and laughed at and not given another second's though.

Saying that nothing in the OP suggests bullying imo.

[foslady]

Yet again, thank you Dontmind - I'm sure that's why he stopped - no one had ever answered him back and it took an 11 year old to make him see that he was being vile by turning the tables.....only in his eyes it would have been because he didn't want 'banter'

[NewStartInSpring]

Does no one tease and banter within families?

Yes of course they do. My sister made fun of my "man" shoes the other week after my niece pointed at them and said "Daddy" (they are Nike Blazers cos I'm so cool haha)

I found it hilarious.

But it's a one off. If she was constantly giving me "banter" about the same thing I would stop finding it quite so hilarious after a while.