To think that it's perfectly fine to be pleased someone is dead when they caused such a lot of harm?

[LoopaDaLoopa]

So, all these people saying it is inappropriate to speak ill of the dead are all positive and nice about Pol Pot are they? Stalin? Hitler?

Just because someone dies does not make them a nice person.

And did you feel sorry for Saddam Hussain's family? Or did it not cross your mind?

FGS, they were celebrating the destruction of the Death Star and potentially the end of the Empire (as per the Emperor being out of the way, along with Darth Vader), not specifically their deaths.

cantspel A bit misleading the run down of pit closures. If you look at the pre-Thatcher closures they were small pits employing a few hundred which were closed because they were worked out. Those employed at the closing pits found employment in the super pits that were opening up and they employed thousands.

Thatcher closed large mines with years of coal reserves left and many of them were profitable. Then did nothing to aid whole communities that were left to die. Whilst it was foolish yo argue tjat the industry didn't need reform/rationalisation, Thatcher visited genocide upon it for political reasons.

Eh MrRected?

its fine , she was /is a total cunt, she will march into hell and 1st thing, close 2 of the 3 furnaces, long live m.thatcher ,saviour of britain,excuse me while i weep.

Get a grip OP. YABVU.

I'm now starting to think though- would it be unreasonable if you were glad someone who made your life a living hell died? Because that's what she did to some people

"Get a grip"

What a thought-provoking and inspired post. :)

Lol... And your rhetoric has me equally inspired...

niceguy The profits (if there are any) should be reinvested in the company. Of course mines 'dry up' and people can and should be retrained but the closing down and managing of the strike was done in a very unpleasant way hence the bitterness, there are right and wrong ways to go about things.

OK, think you need to make your mind up. Either they need to be run for a profit in which case they should make a profit. Only then can they reinvest it.

In reality mines were not making any profits and as you said earlier you didn't think that mattered. In fact they were losing money hand over fist.

With regards to your second point yes we both accept that mines dry up that is logical. But and here is where we differ on our opinions.

Had Scargill not taken the miners out on strike then the closing down of the mines would have been done in an orderly fashion with miners getting proper severance and access to full benefits from the state for being unemployed.

BUT he did take them on strike. And by doing so they couldn't get access to any benefits and of course they don't get paid whilst on strike.

So it comes down to this.

A) Do we subsidise a loss making mine "without limit" as Scargill wanted? Taken to it's logical conclusion we'd still be employing miners after the coal mine has no coal left? (after all he wanted limitless support)

or

B) Close the mines in an orderly fashion and help the miners best we can to find new jobs.

Personally I vote B but you can't do that if they are on strike asking for A)

Composthat mentioned that the mines were not worked out.. But as I mentioned before there's no way ANYONE can compete with mines and ship builders in China or wherever the workforce is paid slave wages. The whole ethos of that type of globalisation stinks IMO, it s probably not just down to MT but I don't think the world is left better greener place with it. The opposite in fact. Okay enough already I've got work to do

the mines may not have been worked out but they were as an industry very uncompetitive. Can't find the link but basically it cost £44 to mine a tonne of UK coal and you could buy it in from outside the UK for about half. Something like that. I forget the exact figures but you get my point.

The whole slave labour in China is besides the point. You cannot compare the wage rates and then say because they pay a lot less, therefore they are paid slave labour. The whole country lives differently and you could (in the past) live very comfortably off some of the lower salaries. Now it's different and their success and globalisation has brought their salaries up a lot.

Not read whole thread ..
I can remember before Thatcher and how bad things were...(eg power cuts, rubbish in the street, 3 weeks to get our phone fixed when it broke...)
She didn't ruin our industry - the unions did that ...
(As to mines - my uncle was a miner until the 1960s - when the mines were already closing down - he became a lorry driver...)
I think she did what needed to be done ... and she showed absolute conviction, she really believed she was doing the right thing for Britain - not like recent politicians - I have as much respect for left wing politicians like Tony Benn for the same reasons...
Also as for the banks etc causing the recent problems - no that was the previous labour government - encouraging spending on credit ...(she said cut your coat according to your cloth)...
Also to get where she did as a women at that time she had to be tough...less than 50 years before she became an MP women hadn't been allowed to show their ankles, didn't have the right to vote ... and we are still fighting against that now - you can't change the world overnight ...you can legislate as much as you like but you have to change attitudes and that takes time/generations...
But I am not upset by the parties - I really believe that these people (most of whom weren't even born when she was in power!) just don't understand and therefore SHE wouldn't really care...in fact think they looked a bit stupid...
As to feeling pleasure when somebody dies ...I had a neighbour from hell for 10+ years ...long story, he used to harass me, the police were involved, he made me life a misery - I used to be frightened of him ... before I realised he was a bully. I would shake after he had a go at me and tried to avoid him eg I was too nervous to hang the washing out in my garden/clean my windows/put rubbish in the bins ... if he was in ...
He dropped dead suddenly almost a year ago - when I found out my first reaction was shock then sadness and to wish we could have solved our differences etc ...
Only after a few months when I realised just how much impact he had on me ( eg when I was 10 mins from home with lots of shopping and I was wondering if he was in and if I could leave unloading the car until he was out -before I remembered he had gone!) did I start to feel relief if anything ...but still didn't want to celebrate in the street!

No one with miners in the family really wanted their children go to down the mines. It was not some wonderful happy hey day. It was a terrible living.

Lady Thatcher transformed this nation for the better and inspired a generation of people who remember the awful 1970s when the UK was the sick man of Europe. She was wonderful.

Those who feel she should be compared to war criminals only illustrate how it tends to be deluded and those with a low IQ who cannot see her greatness and obviously we shall pray for them.

I will say my grandparent's didn't want my uncle to be a miner ...they wanted him to become an apprentice joiner ...but he wanted to go down the mines (1950s) because he would earn almost three times as much than as an apprentice...

Xenia, I just spat out my coffee with your last statement, its hilarious.

Those who feel she should be compared to war criminals only illustrate how it tends to be deluded and those with a low IQ who cannot see her greatness and obviously we shall pray for them

Xenia she was a heartless bitch how did she 'transform the nation for the better'
My main problem is that she declared war on travellers causing police to smash up our homes and piss all over our toys etc. It was a terrible fucking time and was her fault

And now we seem to be going that way again it really is shit

how did she 'transform the nation for the better'

There are lots of things she did which changed the nation for the better. But too many people can't focus on the bigger picture and can only look at certain instances. In your case the travellers.

But if you look at it from a country perspective she stopped the unions from running the country, stopped our economic decline, we balanced our national budget and millions were better off as a result. By any measure you care to look at, our economy was far stronger in 1990 than 1979.

That is what you need to look at. Of course any prime minister will need to make unpopular decisions that will negatively affect people's lives. Mrs Thatcher had to make more than her fair share because of the complete mess the country was in in 1979.

The case is brilliant because it reveals problems with the benefits system.
Xenia's comment on the Philpott case.
Let's discuss your I.Q now shall we Xenia.

Niceguy2 I think ruining peoples lives adds up to more than just an unpopular decision

MsBella - your whole life ruined? or at least the last 20 years of your life?
If that was me I would be more concerned about myself - asking myself some serious questions like ...what could I have done to make my life better?...is it too late to make changes?...

Unlucky, our homes were fucking smashed up leaving people with no home, all kids toys pissed all over, whole way of life fucked up. For gods sake... also I didn't say whole life forever...

Are the bankers really nice guys after all or am I in a parallel universe????

When Maggie Thatcher got in I was missing school on a regular basis as the power was supplied on a timetable eg one town gets it on a Tuesday, but not on a wednesday, the next town gets it fri but not sat. I mean, I was doing my highers, can you imagine if kids doing their A levels were just told, sorry, no school on Wednesdays or Fridays for the next month. Britain was like Greece, but the sad thing was it was on its own, no global recession to blame.

But 20 somethings are marching in the streets because she was so cruel???? Like I say, a parallel universe.

I did a social science course a few years ago and a major part was the effects of job-loss in individuals, lack of money, lack of status, destruction of community. And the example was a yorkshire mining village. But, of course, being the OU and v left wing, no mention as to WHY the jobs had to go etc (it was cheap better quality Polish coal, by the way, my DM used to insist on it, it was better and cheaper than british stuff).

She wouldn't let people continue with their way of life, she declared war on a whole group of human beings

she was a heartless bitch how did she 'transform the nation for the better

She was voted in 3 times - so you are saying that the majority of the british population are what? idiots? misguided? we wanted her as PM!