To think that it's perfectly fine to be pleased someone is dead when they caused such a lot of harm?

[LoopaDaLoopa]

So, all these people saying it is inappropriate to speak ill of the dead are all positive and nice about Pol Pot are they? Stalin? Hitler?

Just because someone dies does not make them a nice person.

And did you feel sorry for Saddam Hussain's family? Or did it not cross your mind?

Seems like a waste of headroom and energy to hate a dead person.

Niceguy

Much respect to you for all your hard work on these threads. It's hard when people are so entrenched in their often misguided views and so intent on heaping vitriol upon someone.

She wasn't perfect and some of the things that happened during her office were not helpful and should have been thought through further (introducing the poll tax in Scotland first for instance). I can see why people who were directly affected by her policies do not like her but the ridiculous claims that she was elitist really annoy me as do the posters who say she did nothing for women. Why should she? Are we some sort of pathetic inferior beings who need to be helped at every turn?

And one other point on the evils of privatisation. When British Gas was privatised people of all walks of life were encouraged to buy shares. People like my parents who had grown up in East End slums had shares in a company (something they would have never dreamed of if Thatcher had not made it possible). Nationalised industries had cost the taxpayers millions and had never made a profit.

Pip just because someone dies doesn't change your feelings towards that person.

And grave dancing over anyone IMO is in bad taste no matter who they are

Dammit I'd been practising my soft shoe shuffle since Monday.

why do people want to blame MT for the decline of mining in the uk?

For any one who is interested and still has an open mind on the issue her is a list of the welsh mine closures and the date of closure

Pre Maggie

North Rhondda No 2 1947
Blaenclydach 1947
Erskine 1947
Llanmarch 1947
Penrhys 1947
Charmborough 1947
Cynon 1947
Llanerch 1947
Rhiw Colbren No 5 1947
Cwmneol 1948
Glanaman 1948
Broadoak 1948
Hook 1948
West Blaina 1948
New Gellihir 1948
Pwllgwaun 1948
Nantewlaeth 1948
Islwyn 1948
Blaendare 1949
Cwm Cynon 1949
Tareni 1949
Eryl Bryn 1949
Wern Fawr 1949
Werfa Dare 1949
Glynogwr 1949
Coalpit Heath 1949
Pontyberem 1949
Brithdir 1949
Camerton 1950
Rhiw Colbren No 2 1950
Cilely 1950
Talclyn 1952
Anthony (merged with Naval) 1952
Bertie (merged with Lewis Merthyr) 1952
Nebe (merged with Gelli) 1952
Pandy (merged with Naval) 1952
Trane (merged with Britannic) 1952
Trefor (merged with Lewis Merthyr) 1952
Garngoch No 1 1952
Pwll 1953
Kay?s Slope (see Garn and Kay?s Slope) 1953
Oaklands 1953
Rhas 1953
Pidwellt 1953
Bromley (see Pensford & Bromley) 1954
Radstock 1954
Rock Vein (merged with Nine Mile Point) 1954
Trimsaran 1954
Brynteg 1954
Dare (merged with Park) 1955
Lucy Thomas 1955
Mynydd Newydd 1955
Brynhenllys 1955
Mynydd Maen 1955
Ynisarwed 1955
Bedlinog 1956
Braysdown (merged with Writhlington) 1956
Crynant 1956
Pengam 1956
Deakin's Red Ash Level 1956
Saron 1956
Deakin's Slope 1957
Bwllfa (merged with Mardy) 1957
Rock (Mon) 1957
Ystalyfera 1957
Gellyceidrim 1957
Vivian (merged with Six Bells) 1958
Naval 1958
Glenhafod 1958
Liandebie 1958
Pensford & Bromley 1958
Tirherbert 1958
Aberbaiden 1959
Cwmllynfell 1959
Eastern United 1959
Mount 1959
Pentre 1959
Steer 1959
Ty Trist 1959
Tydraw 1959
Ferndale No 5 1959
Glyntillery (merged with Hafodyrynys) 1959
Tirpentwys (merged with Hafodyrynys) 1959
Garth Merthyr 1959
Glengarw 1959
Arthur & Edward 1959
Britannic 1960
Carway 1960
North Rhondda 1960
Cannop 1960
Tylerstown No 9 1960
Hendy Merthyr 1960
Big Pit (merged with Blaenavon) 1960
Cwmtillery (merged with Abertillery) 1960
Garn & Kays Slope (merged with Blaenavon) 1960
Lewis Merthyr(merged with Tymawr) 1960
Rose Heyworth (merged with Abertillery) 1960
Clydach Merthyr 1961
Graig Fawr 1961
Rock (Glam) 1961
Llanbradach 1961
Gelli 1962
Onllwyn No 3 1962
Princess Royal 1962
Great Mountain Nos 1 & 2 1962
New Cross Hands 1962
Blaenhirwaun 1962
Lianharan 1962
East 1962
Aberaman 1962
New Rockwood. 1963
Seven Sisters 1963
Bryn 1963
Harry Stoke 1963
Cwmgrach 1963
Ffaldydre 1963
Waunllwyd (merged with Marine) 1963
Onllwyn No 1 1964
Western (see Wyndham/Western) 1964
Cwmgorse 1964
Garth Tonmawr 1964
Nine Mile Point 1964
Pochin 1964
Wern Tarw 1964
Daren 1964
Varteg 1964
Norchard Drift 1965
Rhigos 1965
Glyncastle 1965
Fforchaman 1965
Wernos 1965
Aberbeeg South 1965
Felinfran 1965
Northern United 1965
Pwllbach 1966
Garngoch No 3 1966
Norton Hill 1966
Park (Glam) 1966
Fernhill (see Tower/Fernhill) 1966
Dillwyn 1966
Old Mills 1966
Risca 1966
Albion 1966
Cambrian 1966
Glenrhondda 1966
Duffryn Rhondda 1966
Abercrave 1967
Elliot 1967
Pentreclwydau 1967
Abergorki 1967
Crumlin 1967
International (Maesteg) 1967
Newlands 1968
Wyllie 1968
Yniscedwyn 1968
Cefn Coed 1968
Lindsay (Carmarthen) (merged with Cwmgwili) 1968
New Rock 1968
Cwmcarn 1968
Groesfaen 1968
National 1968
Writhlington (merged with Kilmersdon) 1968
Pantyffynnon 1969
Penllwyngwent 1969
Llanhilleth 1969
Avon 1969
Mountain 1969
Tirpentwys 1969
Waterloo (Mon) 1970
Glyncorrwg 1970
Coed Cae 1973
Kilmersdon 1973
Pentremawr (merged with Cynheidre) 1974
Abercynon (merged with Lady Windsor) 1975
Ffaldau (merged with Garw) 1975
Ogilvie 1975
Windsor (merged with Nantgarw) 1975
Bey 1975
Glyntillery 1975
Hafodyrynys (inc Glyntillery) 1975
Ammanford 1976
Bargoed 1977
Coedely (merged with Cwm) 1977
Morlais (merged with Brynlliw) 1977
Caerau 1977
Graig Merthyr 1978

Maggie and beyond

Deep Duffryn 1979
Blaenavon 1980
Cwmgwili (transferred to private ownership) 1980 (I thought it was a bit later - 1982)
Coegnant 1981
Tymawr (inc Lewis Merthyr) 1983
Blaengwrach 1983
Bryniliw (was Brynlliw / Morlais) 1983
Britannia 1983
Wyndham / Western 1984
Celynen North (merged with Oakdale) 1985
Bedwas 1985
Blaenserchan (merged with Six Bells) 1985
Celynen South 1985
Treforgan 1985
Aberpergwm (as a BCC mine) 1985 (still operating under private ownership)
Penrikyber 1985
Abertillery 1985
St. John?s (Glam) 1985
Garw 1985
Cwm 1986
Nantgarw (was Nantgarw/Windsor) 1986
Six Bells (already merged with Marine) 1987
Abernant 1988
Lady Windsor/Abercynon 1988
Cynheidre (was Cynheidre/Pentremawr) 1989
Merthyr Vale 1989
Oakdale 1989
Trelewis 1989
Blaenant 1990
Deep Navigation 1991
Marine 1989
Penallta 1991
Taff Merthyr 1992
Betws 2003 (under private ownership)

Of which labour was in power from 1964 to 1970 and then again 1974 to 1979 so even if you dont want to accept that Scargil has to shoulder his fair share for the demise of the mines why do Harold Wilson and James Callaghan not get any blame?

That is a problem with mines. They tend to run dry (or not profitable enough) after a while.

I don't think mrs T actually murdered thousands of people and yes YABVU. I think it's disgusting how people can actually be happy about the death of an elderly lady and for what it's worth I'd love to see the state of this country had she never been around. Might be alot less celebrating right now but even so openly gloating is bloody cruel and not a very nice trait to have.

She is someones mother, grandmother

Grow up and get some respect.

Domino I'm aware that the nationalised industries were not well run but they were not meant to make a PROFIT.IMO the profit motive taken to extremes as it is\was in the city is very much 'the unacceptable face of capitalism".

Shares go up and DOWN in value so I'm sure a lot of the new share owners like my ILS LOST money as well.

nationalised industries weren't meant to make a loss... what's the point in paying to prolong a declining industry? so more people can start their working life in a doomed industry?

What's the point of sending industries to countries like China where the workers are paid slave wages and when they want to "get on" e.g. need a pay rise you then take them to Korea or wherever it can be run cheaper; it's a disgusting way to run industry. Purely for effing profit.

Just had the following shared on my Fbook feed - no doubt the writer is patting themselves smugly on the back as we speak:

Just watched Return Of The Jedi. Disgusted by the distasteful scenes at the end where everyone is celebrating the death of Emperor Palpatine. He may have been divisive, but he was strong and he made decisions and stuck to them, and I think he should get a bit of respect. He was, after all, a little old man who died, when you remove any other context whatsoever.

Have never watched Return of the Jedi (dh took me to see Star Wars for the first time when re-entered the cinemas - I fell asleep). But I suppose I get the gist of this post. Tbh, many things supposedly safe for childrem to watch don't bear closer inspection I suppose (don't get me started on Pokemon, for example )

Any thoughts?

I'm sorry but I don't get the "he was a little old man when he died" and "she was a grandmother and mother to someone" .

So what? just because you've reproduced it doesn't make you a nice loving kind parent or person. I was not glad when Saville died (I'm not equating him and MT BTW) only because he needed the humiliation of a trial. But at least the abused people knew it couldn't carry on so they would be glad and who could blame them?

Oh good grief, did a teenager write that, Feenie?

Don't know who wrote it - an adult friend shared it.

I don't see what's wrong with it. I'm guessing the emperor was more extreme than Margaret Thatcher, but the point is that people don't become deserving of respect just because they get old and die.

I'm not celebrating but it doesn't bother me that other people are. It angers me that she's going to have a funeral on a huge scale but I'll put up with it because I accept that many other people respect her, even if I don't.

I wonder whether Thatcher would welcome people dwelling on her age and decrepitude rather than her achievements.

I think its fine to be pleased someone is dead.

Dancing and celebrating is distasteful and pathetic. The only exception to this would be if the death meant the immediate end of a brutal regime/ constant fear of violence or such like. Now that would be something to celebrate.

But thats not the case. Her death changes nothing. Plus she was elected 3 times ffs.

As for holding her responsible for Pinochet's regime! Find me a PM who hasn't supported leaders that we find unacceptable. Or started an illegal war resulting in the death of more Iraqis than we can count.

Erm...Feenie. You do realise that Return of the Jedi is a sci-fi film and not real don't you?

I'm aware that the nationalised industries were not well run but they were not meant to make a PROFIT

If they are not run to make a profit then by logical conclusion someone else has to pay. That someone else was the taxpayer who already were funding them to the tune of over £1billion per year not including having to literally force UK companies to buy UK coal at another unspecified amount.

So...if mines were not supposed to make a profit then just what sort of loss is acceptable to keep miners in jobs and communities alive? According to Scargill this cost was 'limitless'. Sorry but that logic is perverse to say the least.

Yes, I do, niceguy!

The emperor had had the deathstar built, destroyed at least one planet. And was still in power when killed.

Not quite the same as sending troops to the Falklands and dying 20 years out of power...

Maybe they should be celebrating the deaths of people that voted for her.

I don't recall conservatives celebrating the death of any former Labour PMs. Or anyone else for that matter.

I am surprised that the op surprised me. OP?

I've heard that Saudi Arabia was on the phone to BAE just the other week about a Deathstar...

niceguy The profits (if there are any) should be reinvested in the company. Of course mines 'dry up' and people can and should be retrained but the closing down and managing of the strike was done in a very unpleasant way hence the bitterness, there are right and wrong ways to go about things.