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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that it's perfectly fine to be pleased someone is dead when they caused such a lot of harm?

503 replies

LoopaDaLoopa · 09/04/2013 09:43

So, all these people saying it is inappropriate to speak ill of the dead are all positive and nice about Pol Pot are they? Stalin? Hitler?

Just because someone dies does not make them a nice person.

And did you feel sorry for Saddam Hussain's family? Or did it not cross your mind?

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 10/04/2013 17:32

Ed was quite statesmanlike actually.

He even managed to piss off Iain Duncan-Smith by reminding us that he wrote a pamphlet called There Is Such A Thing As Society. Ouch.

And it wasn't just me that noticed Duncan-Smith's discomfort. It was noted by Sky News's Tory Boy deputy political editor Joey Jones.

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 09:37

Unami She also supported the status quo in South Africa when it was under Apartheid by slagging off Mandela et al.

niceguy2 · 11/04/2013 10:16

I just read this on the C4 factcheck website. Very useful in countering what seems to be almost claims of fantasy from the lefties.

The Thatcher Myths

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 11:40

Also useful for countering the rights' claims, a very fair summation actually bit of an own goal there niceguy2 Grin

niceguy2 · 11/04/2013 14:21

Not an own goal at all. I'm all for a fair and unbiased write up of the facts, no matter where it leads.

What I dislike are claims based on unfounded perception rather than facts.

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 14:40

Yes I agree.The facts are usually the most difficult things to find. I like Channel 4.

FasterStronger · 11/04/2013 14:41

Yes niceguy, thatcher as imagined by the left, does seem to be a mythical creature.

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 14:48

Also as imagined by the right IMO faster They do fondly forget her faults esp. as they knifed her in the back at the end!

IMO She holds a place in everyone's imaginations because she WAS the first woman P.M. and people expected someone with a little more empathy than the usual male Tory politician has but we (esp. the women) were disappointed.

FasterStronger · 11/04/2013 15:25

pp - IMO she went power crazy but haven't they all?

john major (shagging Edwina)
blair
brown
cameron

I would like more facts about what she did wrong and less BS.

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 15:53

Okay she dissed the miners and most of the working classes (John Sergeant clearly heard her say "it's war")
BTW Iam apolitical i'm just saying what happened Iam old so was there and compos mentis at the time.

IMO she sold off the council houses far too cheaply and the councils were not allowed to use the money to build new ones; she capped their spending (thus stopping elected councils from doing what they had a mandate to do). Without mentioning the poll tax that caused huge ructions so she had to back down.

She refused to lower VAT on sanitary ware for women. They are not luxuries FFS.

She did nothing to assist women or gays (in fact clause 28 was anti gay) in politics or any other walk of life.

As I said upthread she brown nosed Pres. idiot Reagan and they both deregulated the banks thus giving us the greedy pigs in trough attitude that the darling wankers are trying desperately to hang on to.

There are many other things including huge hypocrisy about the environment (she dissed non car owners while pretending to be environmentally aware) .

niceguy2 · 11/04/2013 16:23

She didn't diss the miners. Scargill deliberately picked a fight with her over something she knew that she couldn't give in on.

You can't have the unions running the country. Otherwise why the hell are we bothering to vote in a general election?

Dawndonna · 11/04/2013 18:35

Would that be why SHE stockpiled coal before picking a fight Niceguy or was that just a coincidence? Douglas Hurd didn't seem to think so on Newsnight a couple of nights ago.

FasterStronger · 11/04/2013 18:57

Would that be why SHE stockpiled coal before picking a fight

energy security. like we should be doing now but aren't.

Dawndonna · 11/04/2013 19:05

Faster I agree with you, prices are crazy and we are in a dangerous situation and rather at the mercy of others with regard to our energy. I read a terrifying article in the Guardian a few years back about what could happen to our supply if various coups etc happened in Russia.

The point I was trying to make though, was that even Hurd, and in fact Maude, both stated quite clearly that she was the one picking the fight.

AnotherTeacherMum · 11/04/2013 19:28

I personally feel that it is in poor taste to actively celebrate someone's death. However I am getting a little fed up of the 'she was old and someone's mother, how dare they...' comments.

Vey recently we have found out that MT and her cabinet colluded with police after Hillsborough to authenticate their (now known to be fraudulent) version of events.

Each of the 96 people who died (including some children) were someone's mother/ son/ brother etc. They did not die peacefully, in old age,in comfort at the Ritz.They died terrifying, painful deaths. Their families not only had to deal with these harowing events but also fabrications that they were drunk, urinating on those who had already died, pickpocketing etc. I think that is a little worse than downloading the 'Wicked Witch' track as a way of letting the world know that there are plenty of people who feel that her actions were,in fact, utterly wicked. She does not deserve the pomp and ceremony funeral that she is to receive.

I personally would like to think that I am above actively celebrating anyone's death, however I fully understand that many people will have a strong sense of relief and closure from her death.

I also really dislike that anyone who feels strongly that her politics or ideologies were wrong and dangeous are made out to be work shy, benefit scrounging 'lefties'. There are plenty of hard working, educated people who hold this view.

As a final complaint there WAS NO RIOTING IN LIVERPOOL!!!! I was in the city centre that night. I don't know about the other cities accused but the fact that about 5 drunk people were photographed on the steps of the station (in that famously non- sensationalist paper, The Daily Mail) with a banner does not equate to a bloody riot.

MsBella · 11/04/2013 20:21

What she did is getting downplayed a lot... she ripped peoples lives apart
But I'm personally not rejoicing her death

fatlotofgood · 11/04/2013 20:47

Partying because MT has died is not only disrespectful but distasteful IMHO. MT can in no way be compared to Pol Pot/Hitler etc and it's not only ridiculous but also insulting to those who suffered under their leadership to do so. She has been away from politics for over 20 years now and was an old and frail lady when she died. It saddens me to see so many men and women totally lacking in empathy for her grieving family and seeing people that weren't even born before Thatcher became PM using her death as an excuse to get drunk and violent :(

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 21:05

So niceguy you're calling John Sargeant a liar are you? He HEARD her diss the miners.

Dawndonna · 11/04/2013 21:06

It saddened me to see so many people with mental health problems on the street when she was in power. It saddened me to see communities torn apart, the very heart ripped out of them. It saddened me to see that the parents/families of Hillsborough victims had to fight for every fucking begrudging sentence of truth.

I find it distasteful and disrespectful when people say it's distasteful and disrespectful for people to mark her death in the manner that they see fit.

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 21:08

So instead of the unions running the country we've overreached ourselves by bailing out the "too big to fail" Non competitive banks.

ppeatfruit · 11/04/2013 21:15

Dawndonna I agree. But she was leader of a Tory party who agreed with her at the start (apparently Nigel Lawson pushed through the Big Bang in the city) so perhaps the 'partying' is an over reaction which would 've been better when she was deposed.

Dawndonna · 11/04/2013 21:48

Unfortunately, I suspect by that time, we were so relieved we didn't think of it, and then following a good few years of 'Nu Labour' and then another couple of years of Tory cuts, those that suffered the most have become so disenfranchised that I suspect they don't really see an alternative.

I have said, were I able I would protest, I have pointed out she tried to remove that right. I would not be violent, I don't believe in violence, I do however understand that when you become so marginalised as to be 'other', it's an easily comprehensible route to follow. Doesn't mean I approve, just that I comprehend.

niceguy2 · 11/04/2013 23:54

Would that be why SHE stockpiled coal before picking a fight Niceguy or was that just a coincidence? Douglas Hurd didn't seem to think so on Newsnight a couple of nights ago.

It's called contingency planning. Standard practice in business and government. I'm sure they have many plans and contingencies for all sorts of eventualities. The emergency services have lots of NBC suits in the event of a nuclear, biological or chemical attack. It doesn't mean they are trying to provoke someone into attacking does it?

So niceguy you're calling John Sargeant a liar are you? He HEARD her diss the miners.

Not aware of what he says he overheard so can't comment. I saw your post earlier but I'd like to see what he said in full and when it allegedly was said. I tried a quick google but didnt find anything. Could it be a quote taken out of context like her 'there is no such thing as society' quote? In that instance if you read the full transcript and put it into context, the whole thing changes.

My overall point is that of course her policies were tough. But it was a tough time. The UK was economically on its knees. Frankly we were fucked. So yes her policies undoubtedly were hard on a lot of people. But in order to stop the rot and ensure the nation had a decent future those hard decisions were made. It would be lovely if you could implement policies where noone loses out and everyone is happy. But you can't do that in the good times, let alone the bad.

But what i see is a lot of people blaming her for stuff which is blatantly untrue. The miners strike was Scargill's fault. Pure and simple. The Falkland's war was Argentina's fault. The banking crisis was 18 years after she was in power and 11 years into a Labour govt...seriously?? Blame Maggie? Give me a break.

Dawndonna · 12/04/2013 00:42

Douglas specifically said that she hoarded it ahead of a 'battle' with them.

As for being up the creek without a paddle, economically, do read your own links.

applecrumbleandcream · 12/04/2013 01:02

I hated her before and I hate her now! Makes no difference to me whether she's alive or not.